Chronographed luger results

[stressed]

I chrono'd a 4" luger alongside a G19 as a modern control. Both are 4", Luger rifled G19 polygonal so FPS will be higher from Glock.

Remington UMC 115gr FMJ

G19

1095
1084
1075
1084

P08

1058
1065
1057
1039

PPU 158gr FMJ

G19

933
918
984

P08

874
864
818

Federal "Guard Dog" EFMJ 105gr

G19

1205
1300
1241

P08

1180
1189
1182

Winchester PDX1 147gr

P08

984
944

Hornady Critical Defense 115gr

P08

1107
1111

HPR 147gr FMJ (suppresser specific)

P08

822
806

Speer 147gr FN-FMJ

P08

941
926

Winchester 124gr NATO

P08

1147
1118

Fiocchi 92gr EMB (Similar to WWII Wehrmacht 92gr, but not sintered FMJ)

G19

1334
1302

P08

1271
1262

Sterling SMG

1694
1681
1664

Smoking. Expect similar results from MP40


Federal 124gr HST

P08

1114
1110
1096

[Sieger]

Hi,

The 124gr. NATO 9mm should be at 1,260 fps, which is +P. Either something is wrong here, or Winchester is taking everyone for a wild ride.

Most of these loads are, per your test, performing WELL UNDER advertised velocities.

Also, in many instances, the uniformity isn't all that hot either.

The original DWM specs. were, 123gr bullet at 1,076 fps. Your Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ looks pretty close.

Query: Why would anyone want to shoot a bullet heavier than 124 grs out of a Luger?


Sieger

[stressed]

Sieger,

Problem is the UMC is nowhere near as close as it is a 115gr bullet. A 123 grain bullet going the same speed would be considerably hotter.

These are the results and they don't lie. It's also common for many rounds to be under published velocities as test barrels are 5-6". I've fired the Winchester NATO from the glock before, and I believe it was in the low to mid 1200's. Keep in mind it was 5 degrees during testing. Cold weather is proven to slow cartridges.

I fired ZQ1 Turkey ammo, which is also NATO. Results were:

P08

1161
1150
1138

So similar. I only fired a couple of these types, as these rounds are way to hot to be fired through luger continuously. The recoil is more pronounced as well.

I fired two +P bullets, one 115gr +P barnes DPX and one liberty +P 50gr.

Barnes DPX 115gr +P

P08

982

Rather pathetic for a "+P 115" Standard 147 was faster at times! This would be a safe load for Lugers. I tested this because last year they were getting pathetic velocities from G19 of 1050 average so I figured same in P08.

Liberty +P 50gr

P08

2093

Advertised is 2000, so it's on target.

And as your question about heavier bullets I shall answer with a question: Why not?

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by stressed

Sieger,

Problem is the UMC is nowhere near as close as it is a 115gr bullet. A 123 grain bullet going the same speed would be considerably hotter.

Hi,

Not really, as that extra 8 grains really doesn't make a whole lot of difference.


Sieger

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by stressed

I chrono'd a 4" luger alongside a G19 as a modern control.

Strong work Stressed! Thanks for this info.

Question ... how was cycling with the lighter bullets (92g and 105g)?

I had never seen the EMB before so looked it up; nasty looking stuff.

Chris

[stressed]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Strong work Stressed! Thanks for this info.

Question ... how was cycling with the lighter bullets (92g and 105g)?

I had never seen the EMB before so looked it up; nasty looking stuff.

Chris

100% function with all ammo, including the 50 grain bullet. (I loaded a standard Remington UMC 115 in front of it to fire off first to make sure it reliably fed)

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by stressed

100% function with all ammo, including the 50 grain bullet. (I loaded a standard Remington UMC 115 in front of it to fire off first to make sure it reliably fed)

Thanks Stressed! Good to know.

[stressed]

Chris,

I ran the EMB, critical defence and gaurd dog because I know some of the guys have problems with feeding JHP's, expecially the WWI era ones so these are expanding bullets with an FMJ profile, and they can get an idea of what performance to expect out of their pistol.

As for Siegers claim of the original 123gr at 1076fps, I suggest running the Federal American Eagle supresser specific 124gr FMJ as its flying right at 1000fps give or take, mimicking the original DWM load. You guys with WW1 era guns should have no problems with that round, and it's easy on the gun. Clean burning too.

[ChrisLL]

Thanks stressed. I have never seen the AE suppressor specific stuff around here. Unfortunately ammo and for that matter powder is "take what you can get around here". For example a stop at the only local gun shop carrying powder yesterday yielded a pound of Titegroup. Not what I was looking for but at least it's something, it was that or nothing. I did see a half-pound of PB last week at a shop out of town, but $31 seemed too much for 8 oz. at least to my wallet.

Similar situation with ammo, occasionally white box at Walmart, but other than that - if it's available it's expensive.

All the more reason to work up a few acceptable reloads with what's available I guess. Helpful to get good info like this and specific info and OAL suggestions and procedures form Sieger and the rest of the gang.

Chris

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

I did see a half-pound of PB last week at a shop out of town, but $31 seemed too much for 8 oz. at least to my wallet.


Chris

This powder is being discontinued, and a number of places are discounting it. I wouldn't want to spend the time and energy to develop good loads for a discontinued powder

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by rhuff

This powder is being discontinued, and a number of places are discounting it. I wouldn't want to spend the time and energy to develop good loads for a discontinued powder

Yes, unfortunately read that. I have been using it though for some 380 and 32ACP loads and if I could get it at a reasonable price would buy it.

Chris

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by rhuff

This powder is being discontinued, and a number of places are discounting it. I wouldn't want to spend the time and energy to develop good loads for a discontinued powder

Hi,

Is Herco being discontinued as well?


Sieger

[ChrisLL]

Sieger,

All I know is from another forum, where they quoted Chris Hodgdon as saying this in response to being asked about 4756 being discontinued:


Yes this powder (4756) along with 4759, PB and 7625 will be discontinued by the end of 2014. I can understand that you are disappointed but there are many reasons why we are discontinuing including outdated technology, high manufacturing costs and low sales.

Appreciate your interest and business

- Chris Hodgdon

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Yes, unfortunately read that. I have been using it though for some 380 and 32ACP loads and if I could get it at a reasonable price would buy it.

Chris

Sorry, I didn't realize that you had been loading with it. In that case, if you like it, I would gather a good inventory of it while still available.

[JuneGrass 8]

Just read the thread on the discontinuing of SR4756 . I just acquired a 30 cal. Swiss 06 , and have been reading up on all the loads that show up on these forums . My question is , has anyone tried VV 3n37 ? I already have this for use in my 38 super , and would like to use it in the Luger if at all possible , Thanks Don

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by JuneGrass 8

Just read the thread on the discontinuing of SR4756 . I just acquired a 30 cal. Swiss 06 , and have been reading up on all the loads that show up on these forums . My question is , has anyone tried VV 3n37 ? I already have this for use in my 38 super , and would like to use it in the Luger if at all possible , Thanks Don

Hi,

Yes, I'd try it immediately!

I'd start with the VV Loading Guide with the lowest load listed for your bullet weight. Then, I'd start increasing the charge 1/10th of a grain until I just started activating the hold-open device on the last shot (single shot tests will do for this phase). If the VV Loading Guide's lowest load activates your hold-open device, then decrease your load until the hold-open will not activate and note your minimum load accordingly. This will act as your base load.

With your base load established, you can comfortably move up, with 1/10th grain increments, from there; carefully watching for either tight groups or pressure signs/pistol malfunctions. When the load is getting to hot, it starts to outrun the springs in your Luger and jams will occur. Stop increasing your load at any sign of pressure or malfunction, as overloading your Luger may case it serious damage (breach block slap)!

Critical to proper Luger function is cartridge O.A.L., so please read my Sticky on how to determine proper O.A.L.. For round nose bullets, the original DWM specs were 1.173 inches of O.A.L..

I've found this powder extremely accurate in my 9mm LP-08; in fact, its my most accurate in this pistol.

Try it, as it should be an excellent powder for the 7.65mm Luger!

Good shooting!


Sieger

[JuneGrass 8]

Sieger,
Thanks much , my instincts were leaning in the direction you outlined , but I have waited so long to purchase my Luger , and of course they haven`t gotten cheaper over time . Anyway , thank you again for leading me through my weak knee`d phase . There are not a lot of options in 7.65mm in the VV loading guide , but the 7.62X25 Tokarev is listed so I`ll use it`s listing`s , and press on with nothing but good intentions , and your good advice .
I look forward to our next get together . Don

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Stop increasing your load at any sign of pressure or malfunction, as overloading your Luger may case it serious damage (breach block slap)!


Sieger

Great info Sieger, thanks. Could you define "breach block slap" please?

Chris

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Great info Sieger, thanks. Could you define "breach block slap" please?

Chris

Hi Chris,

"Breech Block Slap" is the occurrence of the breech block's "slapping" against the inside, rear of the grip frame when firing. If you purchase Gerard Henrotin's Luger Mechanical Function ebook, there is an informative section about it, and the evidence it leaves within the mechanism. It goes hand-in-hand with the marks left on the outside, rear of the frame, where the "duck tail" of the rear toggle bottoms at the back of the frame when the ammunition is too powerful.

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Hi Chris,

"Breech Block Slap" is the occurrence of the breech block's "slapping" against the inside, rear of the grip frame when firing. If you purchase Gerard Henrotin's Luger Mechanical Function ebook, there is an informative section about it, and the evidence it leaves within the mechanism. It goes hand-in-hand with the marks left on the outside, rear of the frame, where the "duck tail" of the rear toggle bottoms at the back of the frame when the ammunition is too powerful.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Chris