" Rare WWI U-boat cutlass" Why for "U Boat"?

DonVoigt · 12-15-2019, 09:48 PM

From the WTS sub forum, a German cutlass is offered with this
description:

Rare WWI U-boat cutlass
100% original German Model 1911, Marine sidearm or SG1911 cutlass. These were only made by Simpson & Co. It’s Crown M on the spine. The scabbard is not original to the cutlass, but is period made from Belgium sword scabbard and fits great. Very rare only issued to U-boat crews. This one is NOT unit marked.

Why would such a boarding cutlass be issued "only" to U Boat crews?

George Anderson · 12-15-2019, 09:50 PM

It's more glamorous.

m1903a3 · 12-15-2019, 10:13 PM

<sigh>

The SG1911 was issued to vessels whose crews used the Navy P.04 Parabellum as their primary weapon and to the training units associated with those vessels: Torpedo boats, Minesweepers, the I and II Torpedo Divisions and the Minen Abteilung in Cuxhaven.

The many photos of I.T.D. and II.T.D taken after 1912 invariably show the men with P.04s and SG1911s. I have two of them, one from the I.TD and the other unmarked (which would have been on a vessel) and forum member Norme has one from the M.A.

The Belgian scabbard makes sense, since many of these cutlasses wound up with the Belgian Police after 1918.

While it's not impossible that they were used on a U-Boot, I have never seen a photo of one that makes any association between the SG1911 and U-Boots

Norme · 12-15-2019, 10:50 PM

I refrained from commenting on this when it was in the "For Sale" forum, but now I guess anything goes. These boarding cutlasses were mostly carried by new recruits in the two Torpedo Divisions and are often seen in the formal photos taken on completion of what we would call basic training. I can't believe that they were ever issued to U Boat crews on active service given the confined conditions they operated in. It's possible that they were issued on ceremonial occasions, like the equally useless swords worn by their officers.
Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 12-15-2019, 11:47 PM

Norm, An interesting discussion but like most anything else Military I don't think you can make such a blanket statement about their issue. My example is unit marked to the 2nd Torpedo Division. These were certainly not just ceremonial. Yes, U boat issue seems problamatical but like most cumbersome weapons in close quarters they were likely kept in lockers for issue to shore/boarding parties. There were very few of these made by Simson & Co. that's for sure! 1000 is the number I remember. In 3 decades of collecting I have only come across the two I bought and now this one.

For the Imperial era they are not all that much bigger than say a stag handled police bayonet. and they would be a formidable weapon in close quarter fighting. They are heavy and like a machete. I can see how one could be useful on an island water collecting party.

I suspect they might have been issued to torpedo boats. But they are military accepted, Imperial Crown M just like the Navy pistol.

12-15-2019, 09:48 PM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	" Rare WWI U-boat cutlass" Why for "U Boat"? From the WTS sub forum, a German cutlass is offered with this description: Rare WWI U-boat cutlass 100% original German Model 1911, Marine sidearm or SG1911 cutlass. These were only made by Simpson & Co. It’s Crown M on the spine. The scabbard is not original to the cutlass, but is period made from Belgium sword scabbard and fits great. Very rare only issued to U-boat crews. This one is NOT unit marked. Why would such a boarding cutlass be issued "only" to U Boat crews? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-15-2019, 10:13 PM	#3
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 198 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	<sigh> The SG1911 was issued to vessels whose crews used the Navy P.04 Parabellum as their primary weapon and to the training units associated with those vessels: Torpedo boats, Minesweepers, the I and II Torpedo Divisions and the Minen Abteilung in Cuxhaven. The many photos of I.T.D. and II.T.D taken after 1912 invariably show the men with P.04s and SG1911s. I have two of them, one from the I.TD and the other unmarked (which would have been on a vessel) and forum member Norme has one from the M.A. The Belgian scabbard makes sense, since many of these cutlasses wound up with the Belgian Police after 1918. While it's not impossible that they were used on a U-Boot, I have never seen a photo of one that makes any association between the SG1911 and U-Boots __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum

12-15-2019, 10:50 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I refrained from commenting on this when it was in the "For Sale" forum, but now I guess anything goes. These boarding cutlasses were mostly carried by new recruits in the two Torpedo Divisions and are often seen in the formal photos taken on completion of what we would call basic training. I can't believe that they were ever issued to U Boat crews on active service given the confined conditions they operated in. It's possible that they were issued on ceremonial occasions, like the equally useless swords worn by their officers. Norm Attached Thumbnails

12-15-2019, 11:47 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,928 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Norm, An interesting discussion but like most anything else Military I don't think you can make such a blanket statement about their issue. My example is unit marked to the 2nd Torpedo Division. These were certainly not just ceremonial. Yes, U boat issue seems problamatical but like most cumbersome weapons in close quarters they were likely kept in lockers for issue to shore/boarding parties. There were very few of these made by Simson & Co. that's for sure! 1000 is the number I remember. In 3 decades of collecting I have only come across the two I bought and now this one. For the Imperial era they are not all that much bigger than say a stag handled police bayonet. and they would be a formidable weapon in close quarter fighting. They are heavy and like a machete. I can see how one could be useful on an island water collecting party. I suspect they might have been issued to torpedo boats. But they are military accepted, Imperial Crown M just like the Navy pistol. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-15-2019, 09:50 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	It's more glamorous.