1902 fat barrel discovered

wayne8661 · 11-10-2008, 10:47 PM

I was lucky enough to find a 1902 american eagle fat barrel luger this past weekend, One problem someone parkerized it long ago. Whoever did it did a nice job as all stamping is still nice and crisp Has anyone else seen this done before?

wayne8661 · 11-10-2008, 10:50 PM

the photo files are too big, Email me at wayne8661@yahoo.com I can send pics of the 1902 ae fat barrel luger

John Sabato · 11-11-2008, 07:56 AM

Send the photos to me at Lugerforum@gmail.com I will resize and post them for you.

John Sabato · 11-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Here are the photos sized to fit the Lugerforum server:

drbuster · 11-14-2008, 11:41 PM

Looks sand blasted as well! Someone in the past made a possible $10,000 rare 1902 AE into a $2500 "rework". Kind of reminds me of the stock market!

alvin · 11-15-2008, 04:30 AM

Wondering why there is a spring at the grip opening?

Ingvarg · 11-15-2008, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alvin
Wondering why there is a spring at the grip opening?

Looks like the magasine spring. (wood buttom broken off)

Nice pistol but relly deserve a rebluing

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 09:51 AM

The magazine wood bootom has been broken at some point. I am trying to locate the piece that is missing. Can anyone tell me if I were to have it restored by a recognized professional would I be doing more harm than good?

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 09:52 AM

Also It has been parkerized at some point I dont know when I dont know why, I wish it hadnt been done. It is what it is

Lugerdoc · 11-15-2008, 10:27 AM

Wayne, I believe that the even pitting on this luger is a result of having been buried for a while rather than sand blasting. I don't know of many restorers who would tackle a restoration of one this pitted. It would require extentive welding to do it right and would be VERY expensive. If you can find a copy of the 4th edition of the "Gun Collector's Digest" you will find a photo essay showing, step by step, Gale Morgan restoring a 20shot conehammer in almost the same condition. Also noted in Kenyon's "Lugers at Radom" that the 23xxx range Fat Barrels are usually commericals not marked with the AE on the receiver. TH

Lugerdoc · 11-15-2008, 10:31 AM

PS: If you can remove the mag from this luger, I do have perfect repro wood bottoms available, either unmarked or "Cal.9m/m" marked. Lugerdoc

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 10:31 AM

Lugerdoc, I am not quite following you on the part of your reply. You mean only a small portion of the 23xxx fat barrels had the american eagle right?

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 10:32 AM

Lugerdoc How can I get one of those repro Cal 9mm magazine bottoms from you?

drbuster · 11-15-2008, 12:19 PM

Tom, on page 11 of Jan Still's Imperial Lugers, is stated that the serial range of the 1902 AE's reported up to serial number #23362.

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 12:21 PM

Dr Buster would it be worth it to have it restored at some point or would it make more sense to leave it be?

drbuster · 11-15-2008, 12:33 PM

Wayne, this is a difficult question to answer. 1902 AE's are rare and highly desired. It's a shame some unknowing gunsmith adulterated this piece and you're right, it is what it is. The metal would have to be buffed down to get rid of the light pitting and this would be obvious and lighten the markings. You might have to pay more for the restoration than you could get for the finished gun. I would not rush into anything. If this piece is in your possession, you might want to show it at some gun shows and ask opinions of "experts". I would also hope that some of our Forum members who do restorations could chime in with their estimations.

wayne8661 · 11-15-2008, 01:02 PM

DR buster the pistol is mine , Believe it or not it was given to me. So I am happy just to have one of these rare pistols , I know the value took a hit because of its condition But I am still happy with the piece. Like I said it was parkerized and whoever had it done had it done long ago. It was stored in its holster in top of a closet for the last 30 years. Well since at least 1979. I am sure that didnt help it at all. Its still a rare pistol and I am happy to own it.

Ron Wood · 11-15-2008, 06:46 PM

Kenyon's observations may be fairly correct, but AEs and Commercials are intermixed throughout 1902 production. Jan Still's estimate is probably more on target...I own #23233 which according to him would be near the end of the line.

Tom, I have that copy of 4th Edition of "Gun Collectors Digest". It was published in 1985 and is getting a bit difficult, but not impossible, to find. The restoration that Gale Morgan did on that 20-shot is next to miraculous. I don't think that restoration of this fat barrel would be nearly that difficult. The parkerization has left a rather rough looking surface, but I think it is mostly superficial and built up on the surface rather than etched down into the metal. It probably would clean up fairly well with minimal, if any, welding required. The problem is finding someone with the requisite skills to do a proper restoration. As discussed in another thread, most, if not all, of the folks qualified to do authentic restoration are no longer accepting new work. And as "drbuster" pointed out, even if you could find a qualified restorer, the cost of restoration might be difficult to recoup if it was sold. I do shudder to hear the term "buffed down"...proper restoration is mostly hand work, shunning the use of a buffing wheel as much as possible!

wayne8661 · 11-16-2008, 11:15 AM

Who would any of you recomend to contact about restoring this? If I do decide to have it restored I want the best job possible. also what would the value of this pistol restored be and in its current condition what would the value be?

drbuster · 11-16-2008, 01:08 PM

Wayne, again it is hard to say and Ron's post above is right on. I would advertise your wants on this and Jan Still's Forum. I would guess that your 1902 AE is it's current condition is worth about $2500-3000 and restored about $5000. But the big caveat here is that it may cost you more than $3000 to restore it.

11-10-2008, 10:47 PM	#1
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	1902 fat barrel discovered I was lucky enough to find a 1902 american eagle fat barrel luger this past weekend, One problem someone parkerized it long ago. Whoever did it did a nice job as all stamping is still nice and crisp Has anyone else seen this done before?

11-11-2008, 07:56 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Send the photos to me at Lugerforum@gmail.com I will resize and post them for you. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-14-2008, 12:28 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here are the photos sized to fit the Lugerforum server: __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-15-2008, 04:30 AM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Wondering why there is a spring at the grip opening? Attached Images

11-15-2008, 10:27 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Wayne, I believe that the even pitting on this luger is a result of having been buried for a while rather than sand blasting. I don't know of many restorers who would tackle a restoration of one this pitted. It would require extentive welding to do it right and would be VERY expensive. If you can find a copy of the 4th edition of the "Gun Collector's Digest" you will find a photo essay showing, step by step, Gale Morgan restoring a 20shot conehammer in almost the same condition. Also noted in Kenyon's "Lugers at Radom" that the 23xxx range Fat Barrels are usually commericals not marked with the AE on the receiver. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-10-2008, 10:50 PM	#2
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	the photo files are too big, Email me at wayne8661@yahoo.com I can send pics of the 1902 ae fat barrel luger

11-14-2008, 11:41 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Looks sand blasted as well! Someone in the past made a possible $10,000 rare 1902 AE into a $2500 "rework". Kind of reminds me of the stock market!

11-15-2008, 09:51 AM	#8
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	The magazine wood bootom has been broken at some point. I am trying to locate the piece that is missing. Can anyone tell me if I were to have it restored by a recognized professional would I be doing more harm than good?

11-15-2008, 09:52 AM	#9
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Also It has been parkerized at some point I dont know when I dont know why, I wish it hadnt been done. It is what it is

11-15-2008, 10:31 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	PS: If you can remove the mag from this luger, I do have perfect repro wood bottoms available, either unmarked or "Cal.9m/m" marked. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-15-2008, 10:32 AM	#13
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Lugerdoc How can I get one of those repro Cal 9mm magazine bottoms from you?

11-15-2008, 12:19 PM	#14
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Tom, on page 11 of Jan Still's Imperial Lugers, is stated that the serial range of the 1902 AE's reported up to serial number #23362.

11-15-2008, 12:21 PM	#15
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Dr Buster would it be worth it to have it restored at some point or would it make more sense to leave it be?

11-15-2008, 12:33 PM	#16
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Wayne, this is a difficult question to answer. 1902 AE's are rare and highly desired. It's a shame some unknowing gunsmith adulterated this piece and you're right, it is what it is. The metal would have to be buffed down to get rid of the light pitting and this would be obvious and lighten the markings. You might have to pay more for the restoration than you could get for the finished gun. I would not rush into anything. If this piece is in your possession, you might want to show it at some gun shows and ask opinions of "experts". I would also hope that some of our Forum members who do restorations could chime in with their estimations.

11-15-2008, 01:02 PM	#17
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	DR buster the pistol is mine , Believe it or not it was given to me. So I am happy just to have one of these rare pistols , I know the value took a hit because of its condition But I am still happy with the piece. Like I said it was parkerized and whoever had it done had it done long ago. It was stored in its holster in top of a closet for the last 30 years. Well since at least 1979. I am sure that didnt help it at all. Its still a rare pistol and I am happy to own it.

11-15-2008, 06:46 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Kenyon's observations may be fairly correct, but AEs and Commercials are intermixed throughout 1902 production. Jan Still's estimate is probably more on target...I own #23233 which according to him would be near the end of the line. Tom, I have that copy of 4th Edition of "Gun Collectors Digest". It was published in 1985 and is getting a bit difficult, but not impossible, to find. The restoration that Gale Morgan did on that 20-shot is next to miraculous. I don't think that restoration of this fat barrel would be nearly that difficult. The parkerization has left a rather rough looking surface, but I think it is mostly superficial and built up on the surface rather than etched down into the metal. It probably would clean up fairly well with minimal, if any, welding required. The problem is finding someone with the requisite skills to do a proper restoration. As discussed in another thread, most, if not all, of the folks qualified to do authentic restoration are no longer accepting new work. And as "drbuster" pointed out, even if you could find a qualified restorer, the cost of restoration might be difficult to recoup if it was sold. I do shudder to hear the term "buffed down"...proper restoration is mostly hand work, shunning the use of a buffing wheel as much as possible! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-16-2008, 11:15 AM	#19
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Who would any of you recomend to contact about restoring this? If I do decide to have it restored I want the best job possible. also what would the value of this pistol restored be and in its current condition what would the value be?

11-16-2008, 01:08 PM	#20
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Wayne, again it is hard to say and Ron's post above is right on. I would advertise your wants on this and Jan Still's Forum. I would guess that your 1902 AE is it's current condition is worth about $2500-3000 and restored about $5000. But the big caveat here is that it may cost you more than $3000 to restore it.