Another 1917 L P 08 "Artillery"- with Black 9 grips

DonVoigt · 03-16-2016, 09:24 AM

Bought this one from the March RIA auction, it is well used and has a mismatched side plate and grips.

What drew me to it of course was the "Black 9.) on the grips.

Note the grips are numbered alike but not matching the pistol,
so were mated with this pistol sometime after mfg., unlike the" Red 9 artillery" I posted with matching numbered grips. Grips would have been removed for marking(I would think)- and perhaps mixed up then? They do fit the frame well and show wear consistent with the pistol.

The mystery or conundrum continues as to why "they" felt it necessary to mark these L P 08 pistols, since all military lugers were in 9mm and had been for years.

It is speculated that the order to mark the grips of the 9mm Broomhandles of 1916 and after caused enough confusion for some armorers to mark all the "new" long barreled pistols.

The shape of these Nines and the period after are surely armorer done, not factory.

This L P 08 also illustrates the common observation of an Erfurt acceptance mark on the right side of the numbered matching rear sight base on an otherwise all DWM pistol. Wonder why?

Another interesting pistol I sure wish could "talk".

Comments, observations, and pictures of your Nine marked artillery pistols are welcome.

DavidJayUden · 03-16-2016, 09:56 AM

Never noticed a dot "." after the nine before, but may have just not noticed. Interesting questions on "why", probably answered best by "because the boss told me to".
Anyway, sounds like you are well on your way to a "niche" collection.
dju

George Anderson · 03-16-2016, 10:38 AM

Don, that's an interesting rendering of the "9". Here are some more variations.

abukafura · 03-16-2016, 11:20 AM

Really nice presentation of the various 9s that were done at the time. Thanks, George

DonVoigt · 03-16-2016, 11:58 AM

Super post George, thanks much!

LU1900 · 03-18-2016, 02:28 AM

I could adds some from my data :

LU1900 · 03-18-2016, 02:32 AM

More

Sergio Natali · 03-18-2016, 03:08 AM

Don and George

Thanks for this interesting thread, I don't recall ever having seen a Luger with "9" grips!

DonVoigt · 03-18-2016, 07:50 AM

Patrice,
thanks much for your pictures!

Counting yours, those from George, and my two; there are 29 examples pictured
Some may be duplicates, it is hard to tell- but I think no two are alike!

George Anderson · 03-18-2016, 08:48 AM

Here's one more. I picked this one up in Don's back yard some years ago.

JTD · 03-18-2016, 10:26 AM

Very nice rig Geo.

Neil Young · 03-18-2016, 11:02 AM

That's a beauty George.

DavidJayUden · 03-18-2016, 11:17 AM

I just LOVE seeing complete rigs like that...
dju

03-16-2016, 09:24 AM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Another 1917 L P 08 "Artillery"- with Black 9 grips Bought this one from the March RIA auction, it is well used and has a mismatched side plate and grips. What drew me to it of course was the "Black 9.) on the grips. Note the grips are numbered alike but not matching the pistol, so were mated with this pistol sometime after mfg., unlike the" Red 9 artillery" I posted with matching numbered grips. Grips would have been removed for marking(I would think)- and perhaps mixed up then? They do fit the frame well and show wear consistent with the pistol. The mystery or conundrum continues as to why "they" felt it necessary to mark these L P 08 pistols, since all military lugers were in 9mm and had been for years. It is speculated that the order to mark the grips of the 9mm Broomhandles of 1916 and after caused enough confusion for some armorers to mark all the "new" long barreled pistols. The shape of these Nines and the period after are surely armorer done, not factory. This L P 08 also illustrates the common observation of an Erfurt acceptance mark on the right side of the numbered matching rear sight base on an otherwise all DWM pistol. Wonder why? Another interesting pistol I sure wish could "talk". Comments, observations, and pictures of your Nine marked artillery pistols are welcome. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-16-2016, 10:38 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Don, that's an interesting rendering of the "9". Here are some more variations. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

03-16-2016, 11:58 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Super post George, thanks much! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-18-2016, 02:28 AM	#6
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	I could adds some from my data : Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-18-2016, 02:32 AM	#7
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	More Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-16-2016, 09:56 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Never noticed a dot "." after the nine before, but may have just not noticed. Interesting questions on "why", probably answered best by "because the boss told me to". Anyway, sounds like you are well on your way to a "niche" collection. dju

03-16-2016, 11:20 AM	#4
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 89 Times in 57 Posts	Really nice presentation of the various 9s that were done at the time. Thanks, George

03-18-2016, 03:08 AM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Don and George Thanks for this interesting thread, I don't recall ever having seen a Luger with "9" grips! __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-18-2016, 07:50 AM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Patrice, thanks much for your pictures! Counting yours, those from George, and my two; there are 29 examples pictured Some may be duplicates, it is hard to tell- but I think no two are alike! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-18-2016, 08:48 AM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Here's one more. I picked this one up in Don's back yard some years ago. Attached Thumbnails

03-18-2016, 10:26 AM	#11
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 215 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	Very nice rig Geo.

03-18-2016, 11:02 AM	#12
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	That's a beauty George. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

03-18-2016, 11:17 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I just LOVE seeing complete rigs like that... dju