Q about 'macro' camera settings - Page 3

sheepherder · 09-06-2015, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

It's a wall charger (the prongs flip out in the back) and a battery [in the pic of the eBay link]. I don't know if it will charge through the USB port (haven't even tried), I always take the battery out and put it in the charger. $40 for a camera like that is a steal, a new camera with similar features will set you back at least $600-$700.

Olle -

The G3 does have an in-camera battery charger; the CA-560 [not USB; uses a mini-DIN cable]. The CR-560 is the off-camera battery charger, with optional 12v car adapter.

I did a little browsing this morning, Canon seems to want a lot for batteries. There's other companies make batteries they say will work, but the reviews on them aren't very encouraging. 150 charges seems to be the average, then they're junk.

I'm still wishy-washy about digital cameras.

4 Scale · 09-06-2015, 08:42 PM

Richard I like your photos, don't be so hard on yourself.

I think you may be getting the best results that are available with your current camera. While I think pocket/compact cameras have their place, nothing beats a DSLR for image quality. As a photog I respect once said to me, "not all pixels are created equal". In looking at your work, I think you need a better camera if you want decisively better photos. Without getting technical, you get fundamentally better images with solid DSLRs. Plus you can really experiment with depth of field and white balance and bracketing exposures from too light to too dark and then picking 'best" on your tube.

With a good DSLR, indirect outdoor lighting is fine, unless you want to add highlights (lighting is a whole other subject). In terms of staged backgrounds, there is some good advice in this thread. Personally I prefer light blue craft paper, with the subject staged so that only the paper shows in background. Go to a craft store, or craft section of Target Walmart etc., and ask for a big sheet of craft paper.

If your goal is to post good pictures to the web, and don't want to spring for a new DSLR, good ones can be had on eBay at astoundingly low prices. You don't need a ton of pixels for web postings but the other stuff a DSLR provides- white balance, bracketing, exposure control, depth of field, sensor quality - do help, even for the web. By "good DSLR" I mean anything by Canon or Nikon in the last few years. Other brands are no doubt as good but I stick with those two. I have too big an investment in Nikon lenses to change, but if I was just starting out I'd go with Canon, better/easier software.

4 Scale · 09-06-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Nobody praised the last three rounds of pics I took,

I really enjoyed them. I have followed your 1900 shooter thread for some time, and your thread and photos were an inspiration to me when suddenly I saw a 1900 model for sale....

sheepherder · 09-06-2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

If you...don't want to spring for a new DSLR, good ones can be had on eBay at astoundingly low prices.

Despite Olle's chronic CRS, his link to the G3 was thought-provoking...For ~$40, a G3 might be within my means...I'm trying to find a source for batteries...Flash cards can be bought at any drugstore nowadays, but batteries are more rare...

DonVoigt · 09-06-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Despite Olle's chronic CRS, his link to the G3 was thought-provoking...For ~$40, a G3 might be within my means...I'm trying to find a source for batteries...Flash cards can be bought at any drugstore nowadays, but batteries are more rare...

Better to buy both on ebay.
I just bought a 4 GB card for $2.38 post paid and 2 new Li ion
batteries for my camera, at 2 for 8.98 again post paid.

I buy all my batteries from there, some come from China directly others are already in the US. "They" make them for most everyone anyway. Buy button cells there too.

If you buy anywhere else you will pay too much!

4 Scale · 09-06-2015, 09:27 PM

I am partial to Canon G series (as you noticed in that other thread) and find them excellent cameras for photographing many things including Lugers. You might "play" on eBay and look at other G series to see what else is out there. It is hard to go wrong with a Canon G - I have owned several, selling the old ones on Ebay when I get the latest. IMO eBay is a fantastic marketplace for buyers of used digital cameras, you can get fine cameras in near new condition that have been let go by those who need or want the latest.

Olle · 09-06-2015, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Despite Olle's chronic CRS, his link to the G3 was thought-provoking...For ~$40, a G3 might be within my means...I'm trying to find a source for batteries...Flash cards can be bought at any drugstore nowadays, but batteries are more rare...

I don't even know what CRS is, but I assume it's nothing positive.

Sorry that you take it that way, but you're shooting the messenger. You have pretty much maxed out your camera, that's all.

I have freelanced for a gun magazine for about 10 years, the editor is anal about good pictures so I have had to gradually work my way up from a $70 Cybershot, and I'm just telling you what I have experienced. The G3 was my first good camera, then I upgraded to a Nikon "something" and now I use the G11. The G11 and G3 are similar in features, the major difference is that the G11 has a broader range in all the adjustments you can make (higher ISO, larger pixel size, aperture settings etc). The difference between a non-adjustable and an adjustable camera is like night and day, just to be able to control the depth of field is extremely helpful when you take close-ups.

The downside to pocket cameras is that you are tied to the settings the manufacturer have picked for different conditions, and the so called manual mode is only a pick list of preset values. What you need is more adjustments, and once you have figured out what all these setting will do you will be able to take much better pictures.

IMO, you don't need to spend the money on SLR, a fixed, good quality lens (which you will normally get in any Nikon, Canon, Sony etc) is cheaper and more manageable for a beginner. I will more than likely move up to an SLR later, but it's mostly to get some more "artistic freedom". And like Don said, you don't need to go any further than to eBay to find cheap batteries and memory cards.

One added bonus is that you don't need to spend much on lighting if you have a good camera. I shoot pretty much all my pictures on the workbench, and the only lighting consists of the fluorescent ceiling lights. By using a tripod and controlling shutter speed, aperture and ISO, I can take great pictures even if the light is dim. Where a pro would add light to get nice shades and reflections, I take it away instead. I simply put towels on the photo tent and move them around until I get the desired lighting. It ends up being pretty dim, but the camera can compensate for this so I can get the same light effects, but without any expensive equipment.

sheepherder · 09-06-2015, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

I don't even know what CRS is, but I assume it's nothing positive.

It's a condition that worsens with age, and I'm sad to admit that I have more than my share of it.

I found a 24 page review of the G3 at Digital Photography Review and am trying to wade through it. Hard going for me.

I know nothing about photography.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3

I will take your word that the G3 is a "first good camera". It sold for $699 new, so $40 for one now is indeed a good deal.

I will be looking for an affordable G3 with charger, battery, and manuals in the near future.

Thank you for your help, Olle!

Olle · 09-07-2015, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

It's a condition that worsens with age, and I'm sad to admit that I have more than my share of it.

Hemorrhoids?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I found a 24 page review of the G3 at Digital Photography Review and am trying to wade through it. Hard going for me.

I know nothing about photography.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong3

I will take your word that the G3 is a "first good camera". It sold for $699 new, so $40 for one now is indeed a good deal.

I will be looking for an affordable G3 with charger, battery, and manuals in the near future.

Thank you for your help, Olle!

There will be a learning curve, for sure. Just figuring out the nomenclature was one hurdle, so it's a good start to learn that and how all those fancy words translate to more practical terms.

However, the good thing about digital cameras is that it doesn't cost anything to take pictures. I hate reading manuals so I learned how to do it by taking 10-20 pictures with different settings, taking notes about which settings I changed, then pull them up on the computer and see how they turned out. Lots of trial and error, and the whole learning process to me was very much like trying to make a smooth cut on a lathe or tuning a carburetor. You just need to get a feel for it, learn the features, which knobs to turn and how much etc, but once you get it you'll find that it's easy.

I was where you are now about 10 years ago, and it took a year or so before I really felt confident that I could pick up the camera and take a picture that really looked like what I wanted without spending a whole day on it. I'm not an expert, but I'll be more than happy to share the little I know. And I know you don't want to hear this, but the G11 is one hell of a camera, there's one for sale right now for $50 and that's the one I would pick. Better ISO, shutter and aperture range will make up for a lot of shortcomings in the "studio" as it makes the lighting less crucial, so you may save a lot of money right there.

Then again, the G3 will be a significant step up from what you have now, and once you feel you want something better you can get your money back by reselling it on eBay.

BTW: Here's some very good reading about the G3: http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...t_g3_x_review/ . The G3 came in a few different versions, and this is obviously the "G3 X", whatever that entails. The main features should hopefully be the same though.

sheepherder · 09-07-2015, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

...the G11 is one hell of a camera, there's one for sale right now for $50 and that's the one I would pick...

I paid for dental work last month, school taxes this month, and have home insurance due next month. More dental in November so it'll be December before I can afford another big purchase ($50 will turn into a couple hundred pretty quickly). By then G11's might be filling up eBay and I can take my pick. The G3-X is still being sold in stores; I haven't read up on them so I don't know what the story is there.

CRS = "Can't Remember Crap".

Otherwise known as Old Timer's Disease (not to be confused with Alzheimers).

Edit: A 'Pawn Shop' (the only one) opened this year in the Big City, I haven't visited it but maybe that might be an interesting place to look at cameras...

Edit 2: Here's a 'First Impressions' of the G3-X, which it says just went on sale this year [2015] @ $999. The specs mean nothing to me, but it sounds too new to show up at my prices...

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/567...u-need-to-know

Edit 3: BTW, before digital cameras, I used (and still have) a Canon AV-1 SLR w/55mm lens [so it says]. It came with a neat little booklet with instructions for setting it for pretty much any situation. I hope the newer Canons come with a similar booklet.

4 Scale · 09-07-2015, 08:58 AM

I pretty much agree with everything Ollie has said, and as you know I also have a G11. I have owned several G models over the years. Please note we are saying pretty much the same thing. My background is I shot pro for local newspapers working my way through college and still do some pro work on occasion for fun.

G3-X is a new intro $1,000 camera; G3 came out in 2002 they are starting over with naming.

If you want to read up on various Canon cameras, you are on the right track with DPReview. You can look at all the Canon cameras in one place, here

http://www.dpreview.com/camerareviews?sort=brand

Sorting by brand. You'll find both the G3-X, G3, G11 and all the other G models over the years and can read for hours if you want. IMO, virtually any Canon G is a fine tool to photograph firearms.

Given your comments, my suggestion: decide how much you want to spend then peruse Ebay and the DP Review site until you find a Canon G that meets your price point/comfort level. Then, when you get it spend a few hours learning the camera and you'll find your photos get much better. Cameras are just like Lugers- learn, buy a basic pre-owned one (with Lugers of course they are all pre-owned), keep learning. With photography you don't need to invest in a big book library, between the web and your local library you can learn what you need.

sheepherder · 09-07-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

I pretty much agree with everything Ollie has said....virtually any Canon G is a fine tool to photograph firearms.

Greg, neither you nor Olle have commented on my original question (way back on pg 1

): Do these cameras eliminate/reduce the bending effect???

4 Scale · 09-07-2015, 09:55 AM

Actually several posters have already provided excellent advice on controlling distortion AKA bent barrel, but I will be glad to recap. There are two easy ways:

1. Frame the pistol in the viewfinder. It's when the barrel is near the top or bottom of the frame that it seems to bend. Looking in the viewfinder keep the lens parallel to the gun but move the camera around until the barrel appears straight. As you move the camera to put the barrel near the top then bottom of the frame, you will actually see the barrel bend one way, then the other. You want the center position where it is in-between and shows no bend. Take the picture at that point, then crop and enlarge the image on your computer as needed to make it big enough.

2. Or, take the photo from farther away then crop and enlarge on your computer.

FWIW I just tested both these methods using my Canon G11 before responding, which verifies that the technique is correct but that the G11 does not automatically eliminate this type of distortion. Some better cameras actually do control distortion via software in the camera. There are also expensive cameras and lenses that optically eliminate distortion, used in studio or architectural photography but those are costly and complex. There is also image software for your computer that can eliminate distortion. But given your budget it might be best to stick with the two approaches above.

4 Scale · 09-07-2015, 10:29 AM

Here are some results. Please forgive the lighting, I'm just trying to show distortion correction method #1 from my previous post.

Actually the Luger pistol design tends to understate barrel distortion because the top silhouette of the pistol is very busy, broken up with receiver, toggle, toggle knobs etc. The barrel exhibits visible bend in the top photo, when shown at the top of the frame. In the second photo it is straighter. You can actually lay a ruler on the photos using three reference marks like the front sight and bottom of the toggle and safety lever, and measure less bend in the second photo. While the "straight" picture is not perfect, it actually illustrates another important technique - if you want one good photo, take many more (20?) from various positions, then pick the best. I just took just two pictures to make my point.

sheepherder · 09-07-2015, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

The effect is called barrel distortion...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

Actually several posters have already provided excellent advice...There is also image software for your computer that can eliminate distortion...

Yes, my PSP 10.2 has this software function, but I didn't know the name of the effect to find the instructions...

But I was wondering if the camera itself had the ability to 'straighten out' the image before processing...

sheepherder · 09-07-2015, 10:55 AM

And here's a rough 'barrel distortion correction' of my original pic on pg 1, done with PSP 10.2...

Still a crappy pic, but now I have an idea of how to straighten the bend...

My Thanks! to Dwight, Olle, Ron, Norm, Greg, and all who commented...

4 Scale · 09-07-2015, 11:00 AM

Good for you!! "Barrel distortion" refers to the apparent lines in a wooden barrel when viewed from the side, the up and down bow top and bottom, and is a common problem with wide angle lenses. It's an amusing coincidence that we are discussing barrel distortion in the context of actual firearm barrels.

I think your photo is not bad. I am not familiar with your software, but a program sophisticated enough to handle distortion may have features to adjust brightness and hue i.e. improve your photo in other ways so that it is darker and has better color saturation. Look for 'brightness' and 'color' control features.

While some people may see your photo as "washed out" (slightly overexposed), I say not so fast. Slight over exposure of an object with fine detail is sometimes desirable, as it tends to illuminate and therefore bring out detail in the shadowed part of the object. A common technique is to overexpose in the camera on such objects, then "fix" the washed-out parts of the image using image processing software. In Ye Olde Days, we did this in the darkroom using what was called dodging and burning in to preserve shadow detail while striving to make the rest of the photo look normal.

All of which is a long way of saying keep trying and learning. I am continually astounded at how good cameras and imaging software have become, having spent hundreds of hours in darkrooms as a photojournalist.

sheepherder · 09-07-2015, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

It's an amusing coincidence that we are discussing barrel distortion in the context of actual firearm barrels.

Yes, I'm all about providing amusement for the Forum.

4 Scale · 09-07-2015, 11:32 AM

By the way-you did ask about macro. Here's what a Canon G series can do in extreme close up. This is a low-rez grab shot; the camera is capable of much sharper close ups. Can you tell which side of the magazine release button was cleaned under a microscope?

DonVoigt · 09-07-2015, 12:25 PM

If you really want to OD on info and "get ready" for your next camera- go online to the website of the manufacturer.

Most post in their entirety the Instruction Book for their various cameras. My last Panasonic came without its IB. I went to the Panasonic site and found it - all 148 glorious pages-.

It is saved to my hard drive now, and being an analog guy, I printed out about half of it for
easy reading and reference.

You could check out the various features that way too.

These other guys are happy with Canon, which are fine cameras. I recenly upgraded to
a several years old Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ 28, with a Leica zoom lens of phenomenal range.
It has about every feature you could ever use.

This one was $50, with battery and charger, no card. There are lots to choose from, you can't go wrong with this one either. I'm very happy with initial results and ease of control.

09-07-2015, 09:55 AM	#53
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Actually several posters have already provided excellent advice on controlling distortion AKA bent barrel, but I will be glad to recap. There are two easy ways: 1. Frame the pistol in the viewfinder. It's when the barrel is near the top or bottom of the frame that it seems to bend. Looking in the viewfinder keep the lens parallel to the gun but move the camera around until the barrel appears straight. As you move the camera to put the barrel near the top then bottom of the frame, you will actually see the barrel bend one way, then the other. You want the center position where it is in-between and shows no bend. Take the picture at that point, then crop and enlarge the image on your computer as needed to make it big enough. 2. Or, take the photo from farther away then crop and enlarge on your computer. FWIW I just tested both these methods using my Canon G11 before responding, which verifies that the technique is correct but that the G11 does not automatically eliminate this type of distortion. Some better cameras actually do control distortion via software in the camera. There are also expensive cameras and lenses that optically eliminate distortion, used in studio or architectural photography but those are costly and complex. There is also image software for your computer that can eliminate distortion. But given your budget it might be best to stick with the two approaches above. Last edited by 4 Scale; 09-07-2015 at 11:10 AM.

09-07-2015, 10:29 AM	#54
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Here are some results. Please forgive the lighting, I'm just trying to show distortion correction method #1 from my previous post. Actually the Luger pistol design tends to understate barrel distortion because the top silhouette of the pistol is very busy, broken up with receiver, toggle, toggle knobs etc. The barrel exhibits visible bend in the top photo, when shown at the top of the frame. In the second photo it is straighter. You can actually lay a ruler on the photos using three reference marks like the front sight and bottom of the toggle and safety lever, and measure less bend in the second photo. While the "straight" picture is not perfect, it actually illustrates another important technique - if you want one good photo, take many more (20?) from various positions, then pick the best. I just took just two pictures to make my point. Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 10:55 AM	#56
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	And here's a rough 'barrel distortion correction' of my original pic on pg 1, done with PSP 10.2... Still a crappy pic, but now I have an idea of how to straighten the bend... My Thanks! to Dwight, Olle, Ron, Norm, Greg, and all who commented... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-07-2015, 11:32 AM	#59
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	By the way-you did ask about macro. Here's what a Canon G series can do in extreme close up. This is a low-rez grab shot; the camera is capable of much sharper close ups. Can you tell which side of the magazine release button was cleaned under a microscope? Attached Thumbnails

09-06-2015, 08:42 PM	#42
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Richard I like your photos, don't be so hard on yourself. I think you may be getting the best results that are available with your current camera. While I think pocket/compact cameras have their place, nothing beats a DSLR for image quality. As a photog I respect once said to me, "not all pixels are created equal". In looking at your work, I think you need a better camera if you want decisively better photos. Without getting technical, you get fundamentally better images with solid DSLRs. Plus you can really experiment with depth of field and white balance and bracketing exposures from too light to too dark and then picking 'best" on your tube. With a good DSLR, indirect outdoor lighting is fine, unless you want to add highlights (lighting is a whole other subject). In terms of staged backgrounds, there is some good advice in this thread. Personally I prefer light blue craft paper, with the subject staged so that only the paper shows in background. Go to a craft store, or craft section of Target Walmart etc., and ask for a big sheet of craft paper. If your goal is to post good pictures to the web, and don't want to spring for a new DSLR, good ones can be had on eBay at astoundingly low prices. You don't need a ton of pixels for web postings but the other stuff a DSLR provides- white balance, bracketing, exposure control, depth of field, sensor quality - do help, even for the web. By "good DSLR" I mean anything by Canon or Nikon in the last few years. Other brands are no doubt as good but I stick with those two. I have too big an investment in Nikon lenses to change, but if I was just starting out I'd go with Canon, better/easier software.

09-06-2015, 09:27 PM	#46
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I am partial to Canon G series (as you noticed in that other thread) and find them excellent cameras for photographing many things including Lugers. You might "play" on eBay and look at other G series to see what else is out there. It is hard to go wrong with a Canon G - I have owned several, selling the old ones on Ebay when I get the latest. IMO eBay is a fantastic marketplace for buyers of used digital cameras, you can get fine cameras in near new condition that have been let go by those who need or want the latest.

09-07-2015, 08:58 AM	#51
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I pretty much agree with everything Ollie has said, and as you know I also have a G11. I have owned several G models over the years. Please note we are saying pretty much the same thing. My background is I shot pro for local newspapers working my way through college and still do some pro work on occasion for fun. G3-X is a new intro $1,000 camera; G3 came out in 2002 they are starting over with naming. If you want to read up on various Canon cameras, you are on the right track with DPReview. You can look at all the Canon cameras in one place, here http://www.dpreview.com/camerareviews?sort=brand Sorting by brand. You'll find both the G3-X, G3, G11 and all the other G models over the years and can read for hours if you want. IMO, virtually any Canon G is a fine tool to photograph firearms. Given your comments, my suggestion: decide how much you want to spend then peruse Ebay and the DP Review site until you find a Canon G that meets your price point/comfort level. Then, when you get it spend a few hours learning the camera and you'll find your photos get much better. Cameras are just like Lugers- learn, buy a basic pre-owned one (with Lugers of course they are all pre-owned), keep learning. With photography you don't need to invest in a big book library, between the web and your local library you can learn what you need.

09-07-2015, 11:00 AM	#57
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Good for you!! "Barrel distortion" refers to the apparent lines in a wooden barrel when viewed from the side, the up and down bow top and bottom, and is a common problem with wide angle lenses. It's an amusing coincidence that we are discussing barrel distortion in the context of actual firearm barrels. I think your photo is not bad. I am not familiar with your software, but a program sophisticated enough to handle distortion may have features to adjust brightness and hue i.e. improve your photo in other ways so that it is darker and has better color saturation. Look for 'brightness' and 'color' control features. While some people may see your photo as "washed out" (slightly overexposed), I say not so fast. Slight over exposure of an object with fine detail is sometimes desirable, as it tends to illuminate and therefore bring out detail in the shadowed part of the object. A common technique is to overexpose in the camera on such objects, then "fix" the washed-out parts of the image using image processing software. In Ye Olde Days, we did this in the darkroom using what was called dodging and burning in to preserve shadow detail while striving to make the rest of the photo look normal. All of which is a long way of saying keep trying and learning. I am continually astounded at how good cameras and imaging software have become, having spent hundreds of hours in darkrooms as a photojournalist.

09-07-2015, 12:25 PM	#60
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	If you really want to OD on info and "get ready" for your next camera- go online to the website of the manufacturer. Most post in their entirety the Instruction Book for their various cameras. My last Panasonic came without its IB. I went to the Panasonic site and found it - all 148 glorious pages-. It is saved to my hard drive now, and being an analog guy, I printed out about half of it for easy reading and reference. You could check out the various features that way too. These other guys are happy with Canon, which are fine cameras. I recenly upgraded to a several years old Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ 28, with a Leica zoom lens of phenomenal range. It has about every feature you could ever use. This one was $50, with battery and charger, no card. There are lots to choose from, you can't go wrong with this one either. I'm very happy with initial results and ease of control.