Reblue v original

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:05 PM

The following are some hints on what to look for in a reblue versus and original finish.

First look for the patina, or slight variation in the finish and underrusting you would associate with a pistol over 80 years old.
This photo compares a reblued 1915 and an original 1918. Also note the edge of the barrel flange

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:07 PM

This is another view of the frames, Note the sharpness of edges on the 1918 and the finish wear. Also the sharpness on the takedown lever

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:11 PM

The side of the recievers also show pronounced difference. Note the halo on the 1918 numbers and the faded appearance of the 1915

Vlim · 09-15-2007, 04:15 PM

Heinz,

Very nice comparison.

I would only like to add the existence of 'period reblues', done as part of refurbishing and/or repair programmes.

Also for our viewers: Note the difference between the strawing. The faded, black freckled straw on the upper frame is what you'd expect to see on a gun that hasn't been messed with. 'Out of the box straw' on a 70+ year old pistol is most likely to be a restraw.

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:15 PM

The rear frame kickups should show the circular tool marks on almost all Imperial military Lugers. They are less prominent in early years, pre 1915, and become more prominent up through 1918. This is the 1915 reblue

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:17 PM

This is the 1918 original finish

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 04:21 PM

Thanks Gerben, you are of course correct.

Also be aware of bad photographs. Dealers are completely capable of taking good photographs

Does the 1915 look better here?

Edward Tinker · 09-15-2007, 04:39 PM

well done Heinz, I have made this a sticky.

Ed

Heinz · 09-15-2007, 10:24 PM

Thanks Ed!

A.Mifsin · 01-25-2008, 07:36 AM

Hi All, Very interesting and informative. I have a question, does a blued main spring Hook indicates that the gun is blued?
Thank you All
Alf

Steinar · 01-25-2008, 09:09 AM

A.Mifsin, I'm sure there are people here that has handeled a lot more main spring followers than me.. but those I have seen have looked reblued, even if the Luger was not a reblue.

John Sabato · 01-25-2008, 11:46 AM

If you mean the recoil spring guide inside the spring, these are usually blue in color... as a result of heat treatment and tempering... if you mean the L-shaped lever that the mainspring guide attaches to, I think that these are usually white from the factory on guns before 1937 and blue after that, but that is just a guess.

A.Mifsin · 01-25-2008, 04:07 PM

The piece I am referring to is, The Coupling Link. Page 3 No 2.4.2 in Jan C. Still Book : Imperial Lugers : Thanks .
Alf

wlyon · 01-25-2008, 04:15 PM

Have not seen the coupling link anything but in the white. It may be somewhat discolored but not blued. Bill

A.Mifsin · 01-26-2008, 03:04 AM

Bill, I agree, but I am not sure, What I can say is that all reblued Lugers I have seen all had the coupling link blued, Lugers seen that have original blueing the link is in the white, but is this norm? :

Alf.

wlyon · 01-26-2008, 12:20 PM

Alf In the luger world nothing seems to be normal. I just looked at the only reblue I own. Coupling link is blued. So I guess I have seen one after all. This is a 1939 so I looked at a original blue 1938 and 1941 both are in the white. So would guess it's a pretty good indicator of a reblue. Bill

A.Mifsin · 01-26-2008, 12:49 PM

Thanks Bill, I agree, untill sombody say otherwise.

Alf

Heinz · 01-26-2008, 01:22 PM

Alf, the 1915 above has an in the white connector link, but the reblue was a rust blue. Mine non reblued 1918 and commercial have white links

A.Mifsin · 01-26-2008, 04:02 PM

Heinz, it seems that it depends on who done the bluing, if the gun is striped and reblued then the link will be in the white, but if the bluing is an immersion type like the hot salt process, than the link will be blued also. I think.
In mid 1937 the hot salt immersion bluing process was used, but was the link included in this process or assembled after bluing?

Alf.

tharpo · 01-26-2008, 05:56 PM

Here is one from 1937 with the coupling link blued. I have suspected
that the toggle train has been re blued. Is there a cut and dry rule on this?
Did some original finish lugers have blued coupling links?

09-15-2007, 04:05 PM	#1
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Reblue v original The following are some hints on what to look for in a reblue versus and original finish. First look for the patina, or slight variation in the finish and underrusting you would associate with a pistol over 80 years old. This photo compares a reblued 1915 and an original 1918. Also note the edge of the barrel flange Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Heinz; 11-25-2008 at 12:25 PM. Reason: spelling

09-15-2007, 04:07 PM	#2
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	This is another view of the frames, Note the sharpness of edges on the 1918 and the finish wear. Also the sharpness on the takedown lever Attached Thumbnails

09-15-2007, 04:11 PM	#3
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	The side of the recievers also show pronounced difference. Note the halo on the 1918 numbers and the faded appearance of the 1915 Attached Thumbnails

09-15-2007, 04:15 PM	#5
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	The rear frame kickups should show the circular tool marks on almost all Imperial military Lugers. They are less prominent in early years, pre 1915, and become more prominent up through 1918. This is the 1915 reblue Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Heinz; 11-25-2008 at 12:27 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar

09-15-2007, 04:17 PM	#6
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	This is the 1918 original finish Attached Images

09-15-2007, 04:15 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Heinz, Very nice comparison. I would only like to add the existence of 'period reblues', done as part of refurbishing and/or repair programmes. Also for our viewers: Note the difference between the strawing. The faded, black freckled straw on the upper frame is what you'd expect to see on a gun that hasn't been messed with. 'Out of the box straw' on a 70+ year old pistol is most likely to be a restraw.

09-15-2007, 04:21 PM	#7
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Thanks Gerben, you are of course correct. Also be aware of bad photographs. Dealers are completely capable of taking good photographs Does the 1915 look better here? Attached Images

09-15-2007, 04:39 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	well done Heinz, I have made this a sticky. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-15-2007, 10:24 PM	#9
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Thanks Ed!

01-25-2008, 07:36 AM	#10
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Hi All, Very interesting and informative. I have a question, does a blued main spring Hook indicates that the gun is blued? Thank you All Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

01-25-2008, 09:09 AM	#11
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	A.Mifsin, I'm sure there are people here that has handeled a lot more main spring followers than me.. but those I have seen have looked reblued, even if the Luger was not a reblue. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

01-25-2008, 11:46 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	If you mean the recoil spring guide inside the spring, these are usually blue in color... as a result of heat treatment and tempering... if you mean the L-shaped lever that the mainspring guide attaches to, I think that these are usually white from the factory on guns before 1937 and blue after that, but that is just a guess. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-25-2008, 04:07 PM	#13
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	The piece I am referring to is, The Coupling Link. Page 3 No 2.4.2 in Jan C. Still Book : Imperial Lugers : Thanks . Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

01-25-2008, 04:15 PM	#14
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	Have not seen the coupling link anything but in the white. It may be somewhat discolored but not blued. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-26-2008, 03:04 AM	#15
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Bill, I agree, but I am not sure, What I can say is that all reblued Lugers I have seen all had the coupling link blued, Lugers seen that have original blueing the link is in the white, but is this norm? : Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

01-26-2008, 12:20 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	Alf In the luger world nothing seems to be normal. I just looked at the only reblue I own. Coupling link is blued. So I guess I have seen one after all. This is a 1939 so I looked at a original blue 1938 and 1941 both are in the white. So would guess it's a pretty good indicator of a reblue. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-26-2008, 12:49 PM	#17
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks Bill, I agree, untill sombody say otherwise. Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

01-26-2008, 01:22 PM	#18
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Alf, the 1915 above has an in the white connector link, but the reblue was a rust blue. Mine non reblued 1918 and commercial have white links

01-26-2008, 04:02 PM	#19
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Heinz, it seems that it depends on who done the bluing, if the gun is striped and reblued then the link will be in the white, but if the bluing is an immersion type like the hot salt process, than the link will be blued also. I think. In mid 1937 the hot salt immersion bluing process was used, but was the link included in this process or assembled after bluing? Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

01-26-2008, 05:56 PM	#20
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	Here is one from 1937 with the coupling link blued. I have suspected that the toggle train has been re blued. Is there a cut and dry rule on this? Did some original finish lugers have blued coupling links?