D-Date Police Questions,,,

[Bob in AZ]

It's just been raining Lugers for me lately. After I picked up my minty S-42/1938 a friend stops by with a double date 1917/1920 DWM. I traded one of my many Garands for it. This Luger has nice finish 90-95%, sear safety, 4"bl exc bore, all matching except mag. I do have a few questions:


The receiver top front edge has the chamfer clearence cut for a artillery sight. Could this Luger been a artillery model and rebarrel with a 4"? Or the cut was just machine in case it was going to be fitted for a artillery. Yes the barrel is number to the gun with bore diam stamped below.


Second, With the sear safety I'm pretty sure this Luger is a police gun. It also has stampings added to the front grip strap of frame. They are S.P.L.o1 3927 and below this on the "hump" part of frame is S.P.L. Unfortunately the first part of these stamping are X out, although you can still read them. Can anyone tell me what this marking translate to?


Lastly, Along with nitro proof, typical military stampings, there is one that I can't figure out. On the toggle just behind the lugs its stamped with a funky ~ over RC. This stamp is also on left side of barrel. Any know what this means?


Appreciate all replies.

Bob

Bob,


Many of the receivers made late in WWI will have the Artillery cut in the receiver. This was done to make use of the receiver in a standard 4" or it could me made into an Artillery. Take a look at the inpsection stamps on the receiver, sometimes a DWM pistol will have an Erfurt made receiver ( I think this is correct, don't have my books with me to confirm) and many of them have this cut. The pistol is peobably all original in it's configuration.


The SPL is probably "Schutzpolitzie Landsburg" with the pistol number. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


The RC stamp should be a Crown/RC. This is a stamp placed on the pistol indicating an out of tolerance part, or some other non specification item. This stamp indicates that the pistol/part is OK to use and safe, but out of spec. This stamp absolved the Inspector of any responsibility in case there was a problem in the field. In other words, the inspector was "off the hook" for this pistol. Hope this helps and if I have made any errors, someone please correct me.


Marvin C.

Bob,


I forgot to add in my previous post that if you are getting many Lugers, invest in Jan Still's book on Imperial, Wiemar, adn Third Reich Lugers. These book are great for giving you details. Most of the WWI Unit markings are in Imperial Lugers and the Weimar Police markings are in Weimar Lugers. They are a good investment and provide hours of reading fun.


Marvin C.

[Bob in AZ]

I picked up Still Third Reich book. Planning on getting them all. Just ran out of "ging" buying Lugers. One month ago I only own one Luger. Lately they have been coming to me like a magnet to steel.


Thanks for the info, very interesting. Later tonight I'll tell ya about the holster and tool it came with. I want to take a scan of it for all to see. Basicly its a standard P08 holster that was modified into a police style holster with stud. Looks period? Not sure who did it. I'll let you guys take a look later.


Bob

[bill m]

Hi Marvin, Bob,

One must stay in the time frame of the gun he is examining. In this case, this is a Weimar Police gun and not an Erfurt or DWM Army Luger. What applies to the Imperial Lugers does not necessarily apply to the Weimar Lugers.


For instance, the cut in the receiver. Erfurt made the cut on almost, if not all of their later Lugers and then issued them with a 4 inch barrel. DWM did not do this, so if it is cut on the receiver of a DWM, it was an artillery Luger. The Crown RC was only used by Erfurt as a out of tolerance stamp. DWM did not use it.


What all this is telling you, is that this gun was made up for the Weimar police from different guns and different manufactures. DWM toggle and Erfurt crown rc markings. This was perfectly correct during this time frame. Most of the time the parts are all matching, but sometimes they are not. Sometimes the grips are the original Imperial grips, and sometimes they were changed when a magazine safety was added. Some of these show a lot of reworking and refinishing, and others do not, which is what makes these so interesting. Weimar Lugers are a different game, with different rules, than Imperial Lugers, and you can't say just because it was once an Imperial Luger that this is how it should be, because that is not usually the case.

[Johnny Peppers]

Apparently the cut on the front of the Erfurt receivers led Harry Jones to conclude that Erfurt made the LP08 through 1918 (page138/139).

[Bob in AZ]

Yes the grips are last 2 digit number to the gun. They look to be original pair. Sorta dark yellow brown in color with average wear.


Interesting point about the cut receiver. The barrel almost looks to nice, 98% blue with excellent rifling. Is there any marking used to indicate it could be a replacement?

I think that your best bet would be to examine the proof/acceptance marks on the barrel (one should be an eagle type mark, either imperial or Weimar style near the breech end, left side) these proofs when checked againist the reference on this site should tell you the origin era of the barrel. There are many possible combinations of proofs on guns from this era. You might also want to compare the eagle on the breech block to that on the receiver and barrel....in order to see if any or all are the same.

[Bob in AZ]

I'll have to take another look tonight after work.


From what I do recall, both barrel and breech block are stamped with a Crown/N. Same marking on right side of reciver and frame.


Bob

Hey Bob: Nice police Luger. Check again if the x'd out markings are maybe S.L.Pol.3927? Marvin asked for verification of his interpretation, so I must say that he is wrong, it does not mean Schutzpolizie Landsburg. The crossed out marking and the marking on the hump- S.P.L.- indicate the Schutzpolizei of the city of Leipzig. Yours was a Luger used by the Saxon police.

Hi, my Erfurt from 1918 has also the RC-stamp on the toggle. there's a lot said to the meaning of it. only this:

RC translated means: Revisions-Commission

I have a photo of an artillery-DWM which original 8" barrel was shortened in 1920! ic could be the original barrel.

The RC-stamp was only used on Erfurt-lugers. in 1916 both companies got the order to fix the cut in both variations (P o8 and the long version). but only Erfurt did it till 1918, and they only produced long lugers only till 1915. DWM manufactured both variations the short one without and the long with the cut. if i'm wrong, please correct me. Dieter

Joe,


Thanks for clearing this up. I looked this up last night and you are correct. My brain is just not as good as it used to be without reference books, ha, ha. Thanks again for clearing this up!


Marvin C.

[Bob in AZ]

Great replies by all, thanks a bunch!


I see these double date Lugers can be very interesting. Soup to nuts with markings.


I'm glad I picked it up. Can't wait for the next score...


Bob

[Orv Reichert]

This is a classic example to prove reworks are interesting, and collectible, too.


I keep hearing folks bad mouth the VOPO guns, the Ukrainian exports..CZ46 P38's...the French made guns..the Postwar Suhl made guns...etc. These are legitimate variations, albeit, not factory originals.


As I always say........"they are what they are!"


They will often say, later .....""GEE, I WISH I HAD BOUGHT ONE WHEN THEY WERE CHEAP!!""


Orv Reichert

Orv,


You really said a mouthful and I agree that these pistols are variations and will come into their own in the near future. Several months ago when I was in Florida, I found a nice VOPV Luger "K" Date for $600. The pistol was all matching inclusing the serial number had been stamped on the new E. German barrel. I originally had intended to have Ted, rework it back to original, and then decided that these are a Government Arsenal rework and should be classified as a variation, so I decided to keep it as purchased.


Marvin C.

[Orv Reichert]

I think Orv is correct. Give 10-15 years and they'll just be another variation.


Ed

He is definitely right, been saying this for a long time but the purist on the web disagree. Don't want to start a battle everyone is entitled to their own opinions and what they want to collect. In the meantime I am going to buy as many as I can.