I found a picture with the kaiser wearing a skull

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 02:21 PM

Is this in anything to do with the skull on the early lugers!

siegersallee · 05-30-2012, 03:01 PM

I cannot answer to the skull on the Lugers; but, the skull the kaiser wears is the uniform of the "Death's Head Hussars".

This totenkopf (or Totenschädel) was a symbol ingrained in the German Military as a symbol denoting elite status. The "Death's Head Hussars" of Prussia and Imperial Germany and the SS and the panzer corp of the Third Reich wore the totenkopf to indicate their elite status.

The most noted figure associated with the "Death's Head Hussars" was Field Marshal August von Mackensen.

In the photo below, he wears a similar uniform to the one the Kaiser wears in the photo in the previous post.

I am sure that, despite the subtle differences, both are the uniform of "Death's Head Hussars".

Richard

George Anderson · 05-30-2012, 03:03 PM

Nothing to do with the very questionable deaths head Lugers. I believe WilhemII was the honorary colonel of the (1st) Leib Hussar Regiment. He is wearing the Busby and uniform of that Regiment.

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 03:04 PM

They would't have to go far on Holloween! Just Kidding!

Douglas Jr. · 05-30-2012, 03:07 PM

Eric

In brief lines, I can tell you that Death's Head (Totenkopf) was a symbol for some Imperial Army units. Among such unit was the Hussars (light cavalry) from Leib-Husaren Regiments Nr.1 and Nr.2 - this is probably the uniform that Willy is wearing in the picture you post. It was also the insgnia wore by the Braunschweigiges Infanterie-Regiment Nr.92 and Braunschweigisches Husaren Regiment Nr.17 until 1918.

During WWI the skull was also wore by Sturmtruppen (Storm troopers), Armored and Flamethrowers units and in the aftermath of that conflict, by several Freikorps units during the troublesome years of 1919-1923. Later, it was adopted by the Waffen-SS and also used as a divisional symbol by the 3. Waffen-SS Panzerdivision.

Douglas

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 03:16 PM

THANK YOU!Is he the one with the crooked arm that had a carbine made for him?

siegersallee · 05-30-2012, 03:33 PM

Yes, he had a deformed left arm which some say he attempted to compensate for with a blustering deposition.

He was, according to Robert K. Massie (Nicholas and Alexandra, Dreadnought, Castles of Steel), regarded by his extended family (he was a grandson of Queen Victoria) as a bad-sport, mean-spirited, bully.

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 03:48 PM

I thank You for your Historical insight. I have to repost my Grandmas plate and my lugers!

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 03:56 PM

Thank You Douglas, book time!

siegersallee · 05-30-2012, 04:29 PM

There was a BBC production in the 1960s narrated by Michael Redgrave (I think, I am going on information given by a friend) that was called "The Fantastic War". I have been watching it on YouTube.

It is about WWI.

It went into far greater detail than Hew Strachen's "The First World War" which aired a few years ago on the history channel.

Anyway, in episode 4 of "The Fantastic War", "The Schlieffen Plan", at time index 6.47, there is a scene where the narrator says the Kaiser is ridding with the Crown Prince's Regiment, the Death's Head Hussars.

The uniform they are wear is almost identical to the ones above.

I just love these kinds of discussions...

I don't mean to be a know-it-all, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject due to my interest in WWI aviation.
This is fueled by the WWI flight simulator: Rise of Flight. A really awesome simulator.

Richard

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 05:24 PM

"contol the minds their concious shall follow!

saab-bob · 05-30-2012, 07:32 PM

Great info gents!
Apparently the WW1 gorilla propaganda poster was part of the inspiration for the original "King Kong" movie.
Good stuff.
Bob

siegersallee · 05-31-2012, 08:14 AM

Good Posters!

Allied propaganda was far more effective than German.

The German government did not see the value of it and for the most part discounted the opinion(s) of the rest of the world.
As the war progressed, they did see keeping the US out of the war was in their best interest and they modified some of their U-boat operations accordingly.

Later in the war, they ramped up some internal propaganda, but that was more to bolster their own war weary population suffering from material deprivation and shortages owing to blockade and a war that seemed interminable.

"Ich kampfe fur Gott, Kaiser, und vaterland"

Richard

Ron Wood · 05-31-2012, 10:02 AM

Kaiser Wilhelm, as commander-in-chief, could wear any uniform he pleased but he favored the 1st Lieb Hussar uniform. Crown Prince Wilhelm was the honorary commander of the 1st Leib Hussars (red kopak on the busby) and Princess Victoria Luise was the honorary commander of the 2nd Leib Hussars (white kopak on the busby). But von Mackensen was the real Commanding General of the 1st Leib Hussars

alanint · 05-31-2012, 10:25 AM

The Mountain Gorrilla had only been discovered and identified in 1902, so this was still a fearsome and unknown creature that was surrounded by much myth during WW1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Great info gents!
Apparently the WW1 gorilla propaganda poster was part of the inspiration for the original "King Kong" movie.
Good stuff.
Bob

cirelaw · 05-31-2012, 12:37 PM

Was he married? That would explain loads!

Ron Wood · 05-31-2012, 04:18 PM

Was who married?

sheepherder · 05-31-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Was who married?

The gorilla...He did get the girl...

cirelaw · 05-31-2012, 06:09 PM

My history reguarding the Kaiser is lacking. Was he married with a family. Were they treated like Royalty?

Ron Wood · 05-31-2012, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

My history reguarding the Kaiser is lacking. Was he married with a family. Were they treated like Royalty?

Not only were they treated like royalty...they were royalty. Kaiser Wilhelm was the last German Emperor. His grandmother was Queen Victoria of England, and two of his cousins were Czar Nicolas of Russia and King George V of England.
Wilhelm was married...to Princess Augusta Viktoria of Schleswig-Holstein...and they had seven children
Crown Prince Wilhelm 1882 (Photo in previous post)
Eitel Fredirich 1883
Adalbert 1884
August Wilhelm 1887
Oskar 1888
Joachim 1890
Victoria-Louise 1892 (Photo in previous post)

05-30-2012, 02:21 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I found a picture with the kaiser wearing a skull Is this in anything to do with the skull on the early lugers! Attached Images

05-30-2012, 03:01 PM	#2
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Death's Head Hussars I cannot answer to the skull on the Lugers; but, the skull the kaiser wears is the uniform of the "Death's Head Hussars". This totenkopf (or Totenschädel) was a symbol ingrained in the German Military as a symbol denoting elite status. The "Death's Head Hussars" of Prussia and Imperial Germany and the SS and the panzer corp of the Third Reich wore the totenkopf to indicate their elite status. The most noted figure associated with the "Death's Head Hussars" was Field Marshal August von Mackensen. In the photo below, he wears a similar uniform to the one the Kaiser wears in the photo in the previous post. I am sure that, despite the subtle differences, both are the uniform of "Death's Head Hussars". Richard Attached Images

05-30-2012, 03:16 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	THANK YOU!Is he the one with the crooked arm that had a carbine made for him? Attached Images

05-30-2012, 03:48 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I thank You for your Historical insight. I have to repost my Grandmas plate and my lugers! Attached Thumbnails

05-30-2012, 05:24 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	These are priceless "contol the minds their concious shall follow! Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

05-30-2012, 03:03 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Nothing to do with the very questionable deaths head Lugers. I believe WilhemII was the honorary colonel of the (1st) Leib Hussar Regiment. He is wearing the Busby and uniform of that Regiment.

05-30-2012, 03:04 PM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	They would't have to go far on Holloween! Just Kidding!

05-30-2012, 03:07 PM	#5
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Eric In brief lines, I can tell you that Death's Head (Totenkopf) was a symbol for some Imperial Army units. Among such unit was the Hussars (light cavalry) from Leib-Husaren Regiments Nr.1 and Nr.2 - this is probably the uniform that Willy is wearing in the picture you post. It was also the insgnia wore by the Braunschweigiges Infanterie-Regiment Nr.92 and Braunschweigisches Husaren Regiment Nr.17 until 1918. During WWI the skull was also wore by Sturmtruppen (Storm troopers), Armored and Flamethrowers units and in the aftermath of that conflict, by several Freikorps units during the troublesome years of 1919-1923. Later, it was adopted by the Waffen-SS and also used as a divisional symbol by the 3. Waffen-SS Panzerdivision. Douglas

05-30-2012, 03:33 PM	#7
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Yes, he had a deformed left arm which some say he attempted to compensate for with a blustering deposition. He was, according to Robert K. Massie (Nicholas and Alexandra, Dreadnought, Castles of Steel), regarded by his extended family (he was a grandson of Queen Victoria) as a bad-sport, mean-spirited, bully.

05-30-2012, 03:56 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You Douglas, book time!

05-30-2012, 04:29 PM	#10
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	There was a BBC production in the 1960s narrated by Michael Redgrave (I think, I am going on information given by a friend) that was called "The Fantastic War". I have been watching it on YouTube. It is about WWI. It went into far greater detail than Hew Strachen's "The First World War" which aired a few years ago on the history channel. Anyway, in episode 4 of "The Fantastic War", "The Schlieffen Plan", at time index 6.47, there is a scene where the narrator says the Kaiser is ridding with the Crown Prince's Regiment, the Death's Head Hussars. The uniform they are wear is almost identical to the ones above. I just love these kinds of discussions... I don't mean to be a know-it-all, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject due to my interest in WWI aviation. This is fueled by the WWI flight simulator: Rise of Flight. A really awesome simulator. Richard

05-30-2012, 07:32 PM	#12
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Great info gents! Apparently the WW1 gorilla propaganda poster was part of the inspiration for the original "King Kong" movie. Good stuff. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

05-31-2012, 08:14 AM	#13
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Good Posters! Allied propaganda was far more effective than German. The German government did not see the value of it and for the most part discounted the opinion(s) of the rest of the world. As the war progressed, they did see keeping the US out of the war was in their best interest and they modified some of their U-boat operations accordingly. Later in the war, they ramped up some internal propaganda, but that was more to bolster their own war weary population suffering from material deprivation and shortages owing to blockade and a war that seemed interminable. "Ich kampfe fur Gott, Kaiser, und vaterland" Richard

05-31-2012, 10:02 AM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Kaiser Wilhelm, as commander-in-chief, could wear any uniform he pleased but he favored the 1st Lieb Hussar uniform. Crown Prince Wilhelm was the honorary commander of the 1st Leib Hussars (red kopak on the busby) and Princess Victoria Luise was the honorary commander of the 2nd Leib Hussars (white kopak on the busby). But von Mackensen was the real Commanding General of the 1st Leib Hussars Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 06-01-2012 at 12:40 PM.

05-31-2012, 12:37 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Was he married? That would explain loads!

05-31-2012, 04:18 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Was who married? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-31-2012, 06:09 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	My history reguarding the Kaiser is lacking. Was he married with a family. Were they treated like Royalty?