Restoration

Can anyone tell me about restoration, or touch up on a luger and how it may or may not enhance the value of a luger. For example: if I own a shooter worth about $450.00 and I restraw, touch up all the bluing provided the gun is not pitted , clean the bore to bright, replace the mismatched wood bottom with a unnumbered replacement what kind of increase in value can I expect to get? My investment would be less than an additional $40.00. Can I now expect to double it's value because new and bright sells and a worn looking shooter is unappealling to a buyer?

[Thor]

I doubt your would increase it much at all from a collector viewpoint, but Wombat got an offer of $1k for his reworked Luger, not from a collector, but from a simple shooter that liked the way it looked! Thor

[Thor]

Sam, and as a collorlary to my last message, it should be pointed out that $1000 collection Luger that is a little lacking in strawing is DECREASED in value to $400-$500 with collectors, and some would not even want the gun anymore if it is reworked. I think the real question is do the Russian reworks have a lot of collection value. Not at present but perhaps later they might, but the guns were reworked by the Russian and dip in COLD bluing and so in my view they have been reworked onced from their original condition anyway so another rework that looks way better is not damaging in my view! I know others WILL disagree with me but Such is life and viva la differance!!!~Thor~

[tom]

Hi Sam,


First, hope to see you at MAX.


Second, to address your question, in my experience, restoration of metal finish on a collector-quality piece will generally DETRACT from collector value, unless, of course, it is undetectable. Thats why I use a loupe on the pieces I buy; I want to know if that finish is Amerikanishe Waffen Fabrik!


Replacement of crappy grips with nicer contemporary un-numbered grips should add value, as the replacement would be exactly what a unit armorer would do and the un-numbered grips would be what he would use.


Likewise, replacement of a mismatched part with an un-numbered original replacement would add value or at least be value neutral for the same reason cited with grips.


Cleaning the bore bright and shiney is just good maintenance and should have no value impact except that if the bore was very dirty, someone might grouse about it and try to knock your asking price down.


A tip to tell if the finish is original: Take a Q-tip and dab just a touch of Semi-chrome on it, then swab the exterior surfaces in several places. On an original finish, you should get traces of microscoptic oxidation-rust-on the Q-tip. A fifty plus year old finish, no matter how well maintained, is going to have some oxidation.


My 2 cents.


Tom Armstrong

Tom & Thor, thanks for the input. Sam Buscemi

What's a loupe?

[Johnny Peppers]

Tom,

Don't know if you use one or not, but a Mini-Maglite will be your best friend at a gunshow. The high intensity bulb will literally shine right through the blue. I have yet to see any pistol at least 50 years old that the blue does not have oxidation and small blemishes in it. Little of the oxidation will show up under gunshow lighting, but the Mini-Mag will show it as well as sunlight. The gunshows are full of chemically stripped and reblued pistols, and these pistols have not had time to gather oxidation. Even if the pistol has had "wear" marks put on it, the metal under the blue will still be too clean. Beware of any collector grade pistol that does not have oxidation under the blue.

[Thor]

It is a jewlers magnifying glass, I have a 10x one~ ~Thor~

[tom]

Thanks for the tip on the mini-mag lite. I guess this is a Home Depot/Ace hardware sourced item?


Tom

[Johnny Peppers]

It can be bought most anywhere. WalMart, Kmart, or sporting good stores. There are quite a few copes, but don't know if they use the same bulb. Get the Mini-Maglite.

Mr. Buscemi's subject brings to mind a thought I wrote about here recently---What is a collectable Luger? I firmly believe that there are prehaps at least two classes of Luger collector---Therefore more than one class of collectible Luger. Class one of course is the man with the most money who wants only near mint pieces. Then there is the other guy who wants a selection of luger models and will settle for less than mint condition. He is like all collectors wants to buy at cheapest price. I observe that since 1960 thousands of Lugers have been imported back to the US. Most of them not near mint. Someone buys them. So this less than mint collector still wants his Luger to look good. They may have to buy a part or two to get it match---maybe even renumber a part---then straw the appropriate parts that have been dip blued---even add some repro wood grips. Maybe polish a blued clip and add one of Gerrys nice wood bottoms complete with new numbers. The Luger sure looks better to the owner and anyone else who looks at it except the big D collector, unless he is trying to sell it. I'll spectulate that the the "enhanced" Luger will sell for more money than the so called Shooter. Enhancment probably only cost about $40 if the owner did work himself. I know of a guy who shall we say enhanced his colletion in the last two years by buying several import Lugers when the price was about $300. He took pot luck in ordering several. He ended up with a mostly matching byf KU with orig blk widow grips [Simpson has an import KU on his list for about$1300]. This guy also got four different proof G dates [two all match], a 1930 Dutch with mismatch side plate [not dip blued], two Simson S codes[one all match], one 1914 matching Erfurt, A 1916 DWM #18 all match, a byf 42 all match with orig blk widow grips and not dip blued. These all of course have Century Arms import marks on the Bls. He removed blue from straw parts where appropriate and re strawed. Some had wood grips which he cleaned and touched up checkering. Not a Damn bad looking bunch of Lugers that are a collection---not a second class collection but a different collection classification. So I say to you new Luger Lovers and other less than well healed Luger accumulators---make them look good to you---they will look good to other guys too. I have trouble believing many people collect Russian imports and want them to continue to look Russian. Damn the import marks--full collection ahead. Everyone hates Blue Sky marked M1 Carbines, however find one for under $300. They were $130 less than 10 years ago. If the Luger will look better to you by some touch up--Do it. I am speaking ofcourse of Import marked Lugers and other lesser grade Lugers. If the Luger is on the real rare side--then I would think carefully.

Mr. Buchanan: Do you believe in enhancement to enrich low cost investments into what would appear to be collector grade? An if so where can I improve my ROI by turning my $400 shooters into collectables? Advise

[miner]

I am often amused when I hear someone speak of a refinished or non-matching luger, P.38, import marked M1 Carbine, etc. as having no collector value...if this were true, you could by them for $100-$125 as many milsurp 9mm pistols can be had. In my mind, any time you have to pay more for a relic gun than what the going rate for a used modern gun of comparable function, the gun has some collector value.

[Marvin]

Art,


A very good anthology of what a collector Luger is! In my opinion, ALL Lugers are collectible! I don't care what condition, matching, mis-matching, whatever; they all have some history behind them.


Now, with that said, you are correct that there are "classes" of Lugers from the mint to the poor. There are also people that can afford to purchase the mint rig with 2 matching magazines, etc. I think this is fantastic that some can afford these and will take care of them for the future. Some people love Lugers, but have a difficult time paying for a Russian import marked pistol. If they can buy some of these they have a collection and they should not be looked down upon as "second class" collectors because these to be the only ones they can afford to buy! From these two extremes most of us fall in between.


I like to buy the best I can, but I have to buy what I can afford. As gentlemen Luger collectors, I feel we must encourage more the history behind this great pistol and get others envolved in collecting them for what they are, regardless if they can only buy the import marked pistols.


Again, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the import pistols! As a matter of fact, if they could talk, I sure would like to hear the stories they could tell about life on the Russian front, who owned the pistol, how was it maintained, how did it get into the Russians hands, what happened to it after capture. WOW, this type story would really hold my attention. As to the mint Luger rig that is 99%; what story can it tell? It may say; I was made in 1939 at the Mauser Plant, shipped to a weapons depot, distributed to Officer Hans Dinklemeyer. Officedr Dinklemeyer used me with his dress uniform only and I was in a couple of parades, but most of the time I was in a drawer being really taken care of. As the war worsened, I stayed home being protected from any damage while my owner was fighting at the front. Unfortunantly, Officer Dinklemeyer was killed in 1944 and I was taken by an American soldier from my drawer and brought to the US where I was admired and then back into a drawer for the next 50 years until my new owner died and I was sold to a dealer. My next owner was a Luger collector who admires me, takes care of me and loves me. Man, what a life I have had!


Which story would be more interesting to hear if the Import Marked Russian blued pistol, or the Mint pistol could talk.


Sorry for the long comments, I guess the Swamp has gotten to me, but please, a Luger is a Luger, and a collector is a collector. There are just different levels, but we are all the same and love Lugers. Even if we do decide to rework that import marked pistol to make it look better, that's OK with me since it has already been "dinked" with by the Russians. I would rather have a nice reworked back to near original than the junk the Russians did to them.


From the Everglades - Marvin

[Thor]

Watch them Gators!

[Marvin]

Hey Ted,


The gators I have to watch are in the plant not in the swamp! This week has been pure H#%l for me, but I have a plan now and ity just may work for me.


Marvin

[ViggoG]

In response to Sam--where do it get Lugers enhanced? Much inhancement work can be done by the average guy who has some mechanical tallent. Straw colors, blue touchup, and grip checkering methods are not a top secret operation. I suggest you locate someone who has been working on Lugers for many years[not necessarily a Master gunsmith who is in business] and ask how to do some of the work. I have known a guy or two that have taken a new Luger enthauist under their wing to teach them the trade just to enjoy seeing the young guys excitement. No--one of these guys was not Martz--someone told me that he charges $500 to teach his skills. I am pleased that some of you guys recognize that there are a whole lot of Luger collectors out there that are unknown and collect what they can afford. They have nice collections that look good---they don't show them off or brag--they don't advertise or go to big shows--Guns and Ammo will never do an article on one of their Lugers---But they are collectors. I realy believe that there are more of them than there are of the Big D's. Sam--I have heard that MidWest Arms have a selection of enhanced Lugers---I am not familiar with them--you might try contacting them--maybe they do the work or could put you in touch with their enhancer. Maybe they would even be willing to give you a few pointers on doing some of your own work.