help new gun 3day inspection

[Douglas711]

Well here it is. I am not really happy with the condition of the gun. It is a police rig, holster two schmeisser Haenel mags with matching serials, not sure if it is force matched. Loading tool numbered, some numbers look a bit off. Hoslter Franz Cobau Berlin 1935 numbered, little slot the strap goes through on the outside is missing, pull strap is there. Not all numbers match on the gun. I noticed the safety bar and rear toggle link aren't matching. The firing pin is not numbered not sure if it should be or not.

It is unit marked. S.MaIH.7 that is x;ed out the new mark is S.Wpr.I.390

Price was $1800 I talked him down to $1600

[Douglas711]

another

[Douglas711]

a

[Douglas711]

another

[Douglas711]

a

[Douglas711]

1

[Douglas711]

1

[Edward Tinker]

Doug, can I get these hi-resolution from you?

send to : weimar_lugers@comcast.net


I did not realize this was a commerical police. That is fairly rare, and well worth the money even if only ONE mag is original.

I don't like the #1 magazine (one on the right, I was thinking it was the number 2) , nor do I like the front of the frame marking. Can i get straight on shots of them? also, both sides. Although the five font looks good, might be just a double strike...

Is it only crown N proofed on the left?

Condition is not what they promised you is it? Did they say it had bad freckeling?

Ed

[Douglas711]

What is wrong with the front of frame marking? I talked with Don M and he said the way the marking are with this gun is the onyl one he is aware of, transition from old district to new district.

Per Don

"Assuming the surviving mark is actually S.Wpr.I.390., it represents weapon # 390 of Dienstort (duty location) I of the Schutzpolizei (uniformed municipal police) in the governmental district of West Prussia. This district was all that was left to Germany of the former Prussian province of West Prussia. Following WWI, this remnant was annexed to the Prussian province of East Prussia.

The x'd out mark is more problematical. It may be S.Ma.I.?7. If so, it is an earlier mark from the same unit. For some period immediately following WWI, this same district was known as Marienwerder, its name during the Imperial era. At some point during the Weimar era, it became known by the former province's name."

I will send you some high quality photos, please bear with me I am trying to get the best pics I can

Thanks,

Doug

[Edward Tinker]

The serial number / front of the frame, not front of the grip

[Douglas711]

Ed,

Crown proof on the left, magazine or the frame. On the frame I don't see any proofs, on the barrel extension I see Crown B and U

[Don M]

Doug,

The unit marks are as I guessed, showing the tranisition in the name of this district from its Imperial name of Marienwerder to its later Weimar name of WestpreuÃ??en. It is also very interesting that the earlier mark includes the letter H. This was not a common practice and was contrary to the April 1922 Prussian marking instructions. This may indicate the first mark was applied prior to this date. As I stated earlier, this is the only example that I am aware of showing this transition in the name of this district on a single weapon. This pistol is also one of only a few in my database from this district. I suspect many of these pistols disappeared when the Soviets occupied this part of Prussia which is no longer in Germany.

I consider this to be a very unique example and I would appreciate your permission to publish the photo of the unit mark in a forthcoming article on Schupo unit marks. Realize that this opinion is coming from a police unit mark junky. I am considering renting a hotel elevator for the first international convention of my fellow believers. As to whether this rig would be considered worth $1600 to the collecting community at large, I think you should consider what others may say about the condition of the gun.

[Douglas711]

Don,

Again thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. I just wish the gun was in better condition. I asked the seller for better pics. He is an older gentleman and has someone else manage his auctions who couldn't get better pics. It sounded great so I bought it. It sounded better than it looks.

Thanks,

Doug

[policeluger]

Is this a 1908 model?? 5 diget SN and mismatched numbers, this gun does not give me a $1600 warm feeling.....please contact me if you wish at 760-375-5703 anytime and I can go over this with you....you still got a 3 day inso period....sorry but trying to help

[policeluger]

Where in Ca. are you located.??

[Edward Tinker]

Howard, the condition bothers me, being a commerical series number makes it rare. HOWEVER, from these pictures I don't like the numers on the front of the frame, it almost appears another number is under it?

PL, why do you say mismatched numbers?


Ed

[policeluger]

I said MM numbers because he did in the first thread...I do not like anything about this at $1600 and if he will contact me, perhaps we can work on helping him over the phone rather than typing all this junk back and forth....I hate typing....anyway IS this commerical...not sure of that yet.

[Dwight Gruber]

Doug,

This frame and upper are not original manufactured mates. The frame serial number overstamps another; the original i suffix is still there.

It will be very difficult, if not impossiblel, to determine the origin of the frame. The small numbered parts do not match its original number, but neither are they edge-numbererd as they would be if they belonged to a P-08 Commercial as suggested by the receiver serial# (lack of edg numbers determined by lightening the fourth picture). This gun's left grip appears to be cut for a magazine safety, it is difficult to tell if there is a filled-in frame panel notch. When you remove the sideplate, is there a hole drilled through the frame behind the trigger; is the bottom inner edge of the trigger plate filed away? This may not be availing, but--what marks are stamped in the lug well?

Does the barrel serial number correspond to the receiver number, is it original or does it appear to be overstamped, are there c/BUG proofs on the barrel?

Are there c/B, c/U stamps on the breechblock? Are the toggle-train parts numbered to the frame or receiver? Are they stamped in the military--visible--style, or hidden commercial style? If they are visible, are there other numbers--the same or different--stamped in the commercial locations? Is the serial number stamped in the bottom surface of the recoil lug? Is the rear toggle pin number-sta

The unnumbered firing pin would not be an impediment with this gun, there could be a couple of legitimate reasons for it. Is it the old-style part, or is it fluted?

With these details yet to confirm, it appears as though this is Luger may have been assembled from parts in an armory and made available for sale to a Police organization. Are there any marks on the right receiver, or any parts stamped with an eagle/HzA?

--Dwight

[Douglas711]

Here are some pics It looks like it did have the mag safety

[Douglas711]

Here are some barrel stampings one set is two eagles one smaller than the other with what looks like a 6 under it, the other stamp I can't make out