need help stripping a 1912 Erfurt for re-finish

[John Sabato]

The judicious use of a mini butane pencil torch (of the type that is used for browning the top of Creme' Brulee dessert) that is kept moving to affect ONLY the paint and not greatly affect the temperature of the frame should burn the paint crispy so you can brass wire brush it off. I can not overemphasize that you can't hold the torch steady in one spot too long. You must keep it moving. This small size torch miminizes the chance that you will damage the frame. ( see the example from an ebay auction)



If you have ever stripped paint off of wood with a torch that is the technique you need to emulate. Hold it in one place only long enough to burn the paint and then brass brush or scrape it and move on. Once the paint is burnt to ash, it will be easy to brass brush off.

You don't want to burn the "wood" only the paint. Try something simple like the lanyard loop first... This technique will work, but it will be slow.
Good luck, and take lots of photos of your progress and post them here.

[sthomp]

Tuesday update...the last couple of days have been very frustrating...haven't seen any progress...we were close to breaking out the propane torch, but GT and I got together again and tried one more shot at using a solvent.

RHUFF, this Bud's for you! GT had picked up an aerosol can of KLEAN-STRIP (I had been using it from a qt can)...there was a very visual difference in the reaction when sprayed on. Clearly good things started to happen. It wasn't going to be a quick stripping, but we now feel that with time and multiple applications, it will come clean. I was concerned about the different result of the can vs. the spray, so I called the manufacturer to see if there was any difference between the two...answer was, NO...they are the same. So, I took the rest of the qt can and dumped it in a metal pan and have submerged the "offending" parts in it and will let the soak with occasional stirring for 24 hrs. I also bought another spray can as a backup for after the soaking. I'm thinking it may well take multiple cans. The only thing I can think of for the different reactions is perhaps a shelf life problem. Ours came from two different stores. The guy at KLEAN-STRIP confirmed that the active ingredient is Methylene Chloride.
All other suggestions are duly noted and on the back burner for now.
I'm hoping for "clean" pictures within a week...I'll share. Steve

[sthomp]

addendum to above...It is also requiring vigorous wire brush action at about 1 hr intervals. I have both stainless and brass brushes...both types are small with fairly soft bristles. Toward the end we may go to 0000 and Acetone for the final prep before sending off for re-bluing. Steve

[rhuff]

Steve,

I am so glad that you are making progress. I don't know what the difference in the two cans might be, but shelf life could certainly enter in. Just don't get this stuff on your skin or in your face.....it is a "bad actor"(ask me how I know!!). I used one of those non-metal/open pore paint stripping wheels in my drill at a very slow speed(keeps from flipping the stripper on you or others), and a lot of 00 steel wool. I look forward to hearing your progress. I like Bud, by the way.

[Arizona Slim]

Just a thought but I wonder if that could have been Powder coated? It sounds like a real nightmare to remove.

Lon

[DavidJayUden]

A putty knife will help get things started once the paint has softened.
dju

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

... Just don't get this stuff on your skin or in your face.....it is a "bad actor"(ask me how I know!!). I used one of those non-metal/open pore paint stripping wheels in my drill....

Caution! Those stripping wheels are quite abrasive, there's grit bonded to the filaments of the pad, and I'd worry about surface damage.

"Bad actor"--agreed! I worked part-time during college at an antique store, where I refinished furniture. A co-worker got a kick out of applying just a dab to, say, the inside of my upper arm, where the skin is tender. He was sneaky about it, but even if you caught him, it was too late. As the methylene chloride soaked thru the skin, it would create a burning sensation that would not wash off, impervious to any efforts to relieve it. A prank that registers high on the annoyance meter... To whirl one's face full of the stuff would be quite an experience!

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

Just a thought but I wonder if that could have been Powder coated?
Lon

That's what this stuff sounds like to me.

D.P.

[sthomp]

Well, the saga continues...the last couple of days have seen some, but minimal progress. The Klean-Strip is slowly attacking it, but very slowly. So, today I went back over to GT's place and we decided to put the muscle to it...try to speed things up. We broke out the propane torch...and very tentatively attacked a small area. It took several maybe 5 second shots with wire brushing between shots to see any removal. So, we got more aggressive and really went after it...right up to the point that the metal was just starting to turn bluish...GT estimated about 600F...we didn't dare go any hotter for obvious reasons. The results were not as good as expected...still significant residual black junk hanging on. So, we did a prolonged application of the Klean-Strip after all the parts cooled down...then rinsed and dried and soaked in Muriatic acid for several minutes. After all of this there was still remnants remaining...more than we expected. Here are some before and after pics. The plan is to continue the propane treatment, with Klean-Strip and muriatic acid dips. I think this will get it done, but it ain't easy...what the hell is this stuff???. I really don't want to go to bead blasting.

[DavidJayUden]

Wonder if soda-blasting would touch the stuff?
Also, I'm still betting that th guys at the chrome plating shop could get it off without weakening the metal, just have to show it to them and express your parameters.
dju

[Patronen]

sthomp,
I have a lead for you. Look up Suncorite 259 Enamel, just put it in a search engine on the computer. This may be what was applied to your luger.

[Olle]

One last thing to try: Brake fluid. I have used it with great success, especially on plastic parts that would melt if you used harsher chemicals. This is what plastic model builders use to remove a botched paint job, and it seems to strip most types of paint. Go with the cheapest DOT3 you can find, the higher grades won't work. I can't guarantee the result, but a 32 oz bottle will only set you back $6-$7 so it's worth a try.

[John Sabato]

To try the brake fluid, if you don't have any on hand, you can get a smaller bottle (or two) 8 oz. size of DOT 3 at most Dollar Tree stores where everything is only a $1.00... and yes, don't spill it on any painted surfaces that you don't intend to strip. DAMHIK.

[sthomp]

OK, I GIVE UP! I checked local metal plating and metal stripping businesses around Phoenix and after talking to half a dozen or so, picked one and took all the parts to them...now I won't be able to sleep for a week until I get them back. The old guy there knew exactly what to do, although he couldn't name the black finish on the parts. Rhuff, guess what he is going to use...Methaline Chloride, the active ingredient in Klean-Strip...but a much higher concentration...And the cost, you might ask...why yes sir...$42 includuding hazardous waste disposal!...half of what I've already spent. Now let's not jump for joy until I have them back. Pictures and comments will be forthcoming in a week to 10 days.
BTW, Patronen, I did a search on Suncorite 259 and it sounds EXACTLY like the stuff on my Luger.
If I could have found someone to do soda blasting I would have tried it. The info I found on it and the comments from the local shops sounded encouraging. I don't have compressor and it does make quite a mess. But this shop was ready to go.
So, once again, thanks to all who voiced their thoughts and suggestions and encouragement. Steve

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

... and yes, don't spill it on any painted surfaces that you don't intend to strip.

I've seen it wrinkle up the paint on a car so that it lifts off like skin. That was a while ago, though, and I'm not sure of its effects on present day auto finishes, which are acrylic. I'm not clairvoyant, John, but how far off is a ring of paint lifted from a car fender?

[Patronen]

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2653

Here is a thread from another forum about suncorite removal.

[sthomp]

yes, the consensus seems to be that Methylene Chloride may be the only thing to hit this stuff. I think that is what GT and I were seeing using the Klean-Strip aerosol which uses a lower concentration of MC. I think the concentration/ percentage of MC in Klean-Strip was just not enough to efficiently get this stuff off quickly. I'm guessing that my shop will use a much more concentrated dose of the MC and get the job done. After the last posted pics from yesterday, I used some 400 grit paper and it did a good job on the flat surfaces, but impossible to get into the nooks and crannies and was not good for corners or in the stamps. I just don't see any other way to get this done than some chemical application...we'll see (and hope).

[Olle]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I've seen it wrinkle up the paint on a car so that it lifts off like skin. That was a while ago, though, and I'm not sure of its effects on present day auto finishes, which are acrylic. I'm not clairvoyant, John, but how far off is a ring of paint lifted from a car fender?

I have seen DOT3 wrinkle the paint in the engine compartment of a 71' Camaro I used to own, nicely detailed and freshly painted with modern 2K paint...

[Vic103]

After reading all the posts, and all the things you have tried, it sounds like you are gonna have to bead blast it, polish it, and have it salt blued. Then you will have a beautiful Luger. Because of my OCD this is the route I would take. Just my .02 cents. Good luck. It will be an awesome looking Luger.

[ithacaartist]

Hey Mark, as Yogi Berra said, "It ain't over until it's over". The jury is still out; let's see what results from the full-strength bath in methylene chloride.

If it does need blasting, I think it could be rust blued again if the surface were sanded and trued after the nooks and crannies are cleaned out. Though the evidence of any such treatment will always exist, it would probably satisfy my OCD!

[sthomp]

All right guys...IT'S OVER. I got the parts back today from the local plating shop...they did a wonderful job on it (see pics below). There are a few little spots in some stampings and old pits that didn't come completely clean, but it's 99% in my estimation. Now just getting it ready to ship off to have it re-blued and strawed.
My STRONG advice to anyone faced with this tough of a strip job...take it to a professional!
Many thanks to everyone for their suggestions and best wishes. I will try to remember to post "after" pics when I get it all back together. Steve