?? for the pros.

[Herb]

Thor's 1915 just spoke to me! It said take me, hold me, caress me, care for me for I am again beautiful just as the day I was born, I have lived a long and eventful life and now I am reborn and ready to fulfill my destiny!! (See what Kentucky whisky does to ya??)

[Thor]

Thanks Herb! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[Johnny Peppers]

Apparently I had no idea of what reblued Lugers were now selling for as pointed out to me by Ted, but just for funs I went to the Simpson Ltd. site and found any number of 90% +- range original finish pistols for sale in the $1000 range. Are we seeing a trend here in new buyers paying more for refinished pistols than original specimens, or new buyers relying strictly on internet auctions. I think we had seen a trend in the lower grade and reblued Lugers pushing the value of the better original Lugers up, but when did the reblued pistols pass the original pistols in desireability and price?
One of the first pistols in the DWM list is a Model 1900 99%/99% professional restoration for $2995. Right under it is a Model 1900 95%/80% original finish for $4995. This is about the ratio I would expect to see between an original and a reblued Luger, but apparently this no longer holds true.

[AGE]

Hey Herb,

Don't drool on my gun. That's mine that Thor is showing off (I think). I haven't even had my hands on it yet (I've been out of state for 3+ months and he is holding it for another week or two).

Well guys, I am excited by it too--hope I like it in person as well as I do from Thor's pictures.

Johnny,

Don't tell Thor about $3000 refinished guns until mine is delivered. His price wasn't cheap, but nothing like that.

Wes and Johnny,

As I said above, not all purchases are logical--I guess I was seduced by this sexy 1915 DWM. Herb seems to understand.

Thor,

Thanks for keeping my baby well oiled--I'll take it off of you hands soon. Don't wear off that new blue.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Wes, I don't know...With a re-blue it stops speaking. Sticking with my anology of a masters painting I would have to say they all need a cleaning after a hundred years and sometimes they look as good or better after the cleaning. I have to admit Thor's restorations look a lot better than most of those pistols when they arrive at his shop. I would not advocate re-blueing of a pistol that has adequate blue but some of these pistols need a new coat of paint. I found a 1908 Army Luger at the Houston gun show that was chromed. After the chrome was electronically removed and a new blue job applied it saved a beautiful Luger from the junkpile. If you did not know it's history you would fondle and drool.

You must have a lot of time on your hands or an obscure degree...Charon and the river Styx? Where do you get this stuff? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Hugh]

Jerry,
I think Wes lives to high up on the mountain, that thin air kinda goes to his head every once in a while! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[wterrell]

[quote] Charon and the river Styx? Where do you get this stuff? <hr></blockquote>

Jerry,

This is difficult to answer, for a person has a tendency to inflate the truth placing himself in a better light or maybe try to appear more heroic in defeating adversity. So, in order to save myself embarassment, I will say that I have read, somewhat.

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

I have an SS Luger and have only fired 2 magazines thru it, in my opinion, it has NO class like the REAL ones.
Lonnie

[Herb]

I keep hearing that you collectors would rather have a Luger "than can talk", rather than a piece that has been totally refurbished. What would you say to a Luger that had killed several American soldiers, and then got transferred to a concentration camp where it then was responsible for the elimination of 14 Jewish men, 19 women, and 11 children while they knelt over an open trench? Is that the kind of history you crave? These pistols were made for one reason, to kill another human being, in war or in conquest. Their history is of no concern to me, my M-16 wrote it's own history in VietNam, and I assure you I have no desire to relive it, and you probably don't want to hear it. I'll take a good refurbish any time over one with the blood stains of whatever happened in it's history. Collecting the blood of dead soldiers or innocent political victims is not my bag.

[Edward Tinker]

Herb, Herb, these kind of discussions go to badddd places <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Anyway, no I would not buy a Luger that had a bad history with it, but I have to expect that a gun that is designed to pop caps during war has taken both lives.

So, in some regards I prefer the WW1 guns, to the WW2, although I have both. But, and here is where I get wishy washy, the history of the gun is my main concern, its looks another, but what if'ing it can lead to sleepless nights. So, yes its possible gory history is history. I think that any countries guns have been used wrongly. [img]eek.gif[/img]

[wterrell]

Herb,

The subject is perfectly legitimate. I do not collect WWII Lugers and am very reluctant to own a WWI Luger. I love commercials and transition pistols.
I almost got myself banned from the forum on this subject for expressing my very strong views.
Those who collect these pieces are welcome to them as collectables.

[tony k]

Well, for a subject that surfaces here frequently, this thread certainly has brought out some new perspectives to me. So I guess I'll add my two (inflated) cents.

I've always appreciated art and history. About a year ago, I visited Rome. They are rebuilding parts of the Coliseum, but you still can feel the undiluted history with each footstep. Then I saw the Sistine Chapel. After a full restoration, it looks like it was painted yesterday ... and when they were removing the centuries of grime, they forgot that that future patina may have been in the mind of the artists who painted it. I now much prefer looking at old prints of Michaelangelo's work.

I equally admire all Lugers, from as-new examples to Hugh's Armadillo Specials. But I find the strongest personal attraction to guns which were handled and used -- whether commercial or military models. A gun which sat untouched in a box on a shelf, or in a desk drawer, gives me no sense of history (right or wrong). It is simply a beautifully made, but unused, tool that time passed by, leaving no mark. The patina that comes with years of careful use proves that this inanimate tool was a witness to history.

My matching-numbered '41 byf is the only WWII veteran in my modest collection (and at present the only Luger). I know that from December 1941 until, at the latest, April 1945, it may have been used to further a goal I find repugnant.

Then it found its way to the U.S. Someone reblued it and fitted a set of uncheckered walnut grips, and it came into my family in the early 1950s. For decades, it was carried along on countless range visits and deer-hunting trips. It is fairly worn now, and a coupla years ago I talked to Ted about making it pretty again .... but I've come to realize that all that wear is honest, and is part of my family's legacy.

I do not know how it may have been employed in the first few years of its existence, but I do not dwell on that. Instead, I look at its half-century of service with my family. The browning of the grip straps came from our sweat; no one has ever remarked on the proof symbols or what they represent.

My Luger's history may not be typical. At times I do I wish it had never been reblued; but perhaps that wiped the slate clean for us. It is worth far more to me than if it had been a pristine Luger which sat untouched in our safe. The market will disagree, but this one will never be sold anyway.

How's that for a long-winded endorsement of shootable Lugers?

[tony k]

And to see if I can figure out to post a pic, here's my then-fiancee (now wife) shooting the byf about 20 years ago. (Yes, she now knows better than to shoot without safety glasses.)

[Ron Wood]

Tony, that is probably as good of a summation as you could ask for. People collect/acquire Lugers for lots of reasons, and each is personal. There is no right or wrong, only what appeals to you. No one should criticize anyone else for their motives or preferences. This is a hobby for all Luger enthusiasts. Go for what you like, damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.

[John Sabato]

Hey Tony K... I have seen that photo before... a long time ago on the old forum, maybe even on the first forum that was based in Taiwan....Haven't heard much from you for a long time. Welcome back.

[tony k]

Hello again, John! Yes, I posted it back in the oriental days ... I've been regularly visiting the forum (and learning!) off and on ever since.

Though a lifelong Luger shooter, I've been blessed with an example that has always worked flawlessly -- a testament to its design and construction -- so I've never needed to ask for assistance here. OTOH, the level of Luger knowledge and expertise ... and passion ... in these postings seems to grow exponentially, and way beyond mine, so I've been content to lurk, learn and greatly enjoy.

I guess a sincere thanks to you, to the other mods and to everyone here is long overdue!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Herb, You are putting the blame on an inanimate object when in reality it belongs with the people who perpetrated these horrible acts against humanity. This is a typical rookie liberal mistake....Surely as a good Republican you don't believe the pistol had anything to do with it? When you cook your breakfast you don't condem fire? It has caused untold harm but it is not to blame for arson. Just a thought...Jerry Burney [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[AGE]

Well I finally got it--the Luger that I bought from Thor a couple of months ago (see his post above dated Sept. 15th). The delay was my fault, not his, I don't have a FFL and was out of state for 3+ months.

The 1915 DWM is beautiful, we do have a master craftsman here as others have said before. Ted's work is excellent, I have seen lots of new Colts, S&Ws, etc. that weren't finished as well as his rework of an 87 year old Luger.

I haven't shot it yet, but shoot it I will. With regard to all of the discussion above about original German guns, refinished guns, and post WWII guns, I guess this old shooter loves them all and this example is great.

Also, as I have said before, I don't care much for history in general, especially German history and the Germans have done some very evil things. I wouldn't give a plug nickle for a P-38, 98 Mauser, authentic Luger holster, etc. However, the original German Luger designers really got the esthetics of the P-08 right and it's a neeeeat piece of hardware--actually a piece of art.

That said, the sights are small, the safety is awkward, and the trigger is heavy and gritty (on this one as well as my 1936 shooter). Neat as it is, it won't replace my 1911s for target or my S&W 3914 for carry.

[Thor]

Thanks AGE, I enjoyed that gun, it was darn accurate, it was so used to my safe, IT CRIED, when I pulled it out of its home for the last time, and now I bet it is missing me! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] lol have a good time with it, its a beaut!! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

[AGE]

Well I shot Thor's restored 1915 DWM on Tuesday. See his Sept. 15th post above. It not only looks great, it shoots great. Shot a 1 1/2" group at 50', centered in the black of a standard 50' NRA target--very satisfying. The trigger is a little gritty or this could be a target gun--even the sights aren't too bad.

Well anyway, I guess its a keeper. Went to a lot of trouble and expense to get it and it's neeeeat.

Sorry Wes, I like it and I guess I'll spend my $$ on what I like. Maybe I'd like some of the rare originals just as well, but I would be afraid to shoot them. If this one breaks or the finish wears (not likely in my lifetime) I'll just send it back to Thor for repairs.