1915 DWM Photo Shoot

gozrula · 10-16-2010, 08:19 PM

Here’s an excellent specimen, my second Luger acquisition, of a unit marked 1915 DWM pistol. On the front grip you see: R. 135. 10.3. Regiment 135, Kompagnie 10, Waffe Nr. 3. I was told this gun was assigned to the 3. Lothringisches Infanterie Regiment Nr. 135. The regiment was part of the 33. inf. div and fought at the Western front. This gun is exceptionally clean except for some minor pitting in the barrel. I would rate this gun an overall ~98%

Amazing that this gun could have survived as intact as it is given its history.

Feedback requested.

Thanks,
Larry

alanint · 10-17-2010, 08:38 AM

A better shot of the barrel stampings, (i.e. serial number) without the white paint would help in rendering an opinion.

At first sight and from the photos provided I'm going to say really nice rrestoration. Not the original finish

sheepherder · 10-17-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozrula

Amazing that this gun could have survived as intact as it is given its history.

Amazing indeed...I don't think I've ever seen a Luger without any wear on the backstrap...

gozrula · 10-17-2010, 01:27 PM

I do understand that irrefutable evidence is required for qualified opinions from experts on this site and would expect no less.

So, here’s another attempt at getting better camera angles after experimenting with lighting and removing the china marker as best I could without scrubbing.

The halos around the numbers and metal displacement clearly showing stamping after bluing as much more evident. Bluing is 100% original.

Also tried to capture better detail on the grip checkering which also serial match the gun as well as other angles of the frame. Straw is showing actually greater than 80% in these photos. Must be the lighting.

I have nothing to gain by misrepresenting anything claimed here as I’m not selling and expect this to be my son’s someday.

Thanks in advance for your comments.
Larry

gozrula · 10-17-2010, 01:58 PM

I bought this gun as a consignment from a reputable local dealer who I trust.

The gun belonged to a gentleman in his 50’s who got it from his Grandfather.

The Grandfather, who after living in the U.S. for many years returned to his home in the Fatherland.

I wish I had more than that to share. I think this gun has been kept safely tucked away for many years out of circulation.

Larry

alanint · 10-17-2010, 06:27 PM

Hmmm, I'm still not convinced. Your barrel photos still show what I would consider buffed numbers and if you see haloes I certainly dont.

Your photos tell me absolutely nothing new and the regimental markings on the front strap look buffed out and show no haloes either.

You may be convinced but I certainly would not purchase this pistol as an original finish gun.

gozrula · 10-17-2010, 11:03 PM

Well the halos are hard to see and even harder to get a good picture of, for me at least with my camera setup.

If you look at my second photo post, first picture, you can see faint evidence around the #3 and also on the bottom edge of the number #1.

Also, the #1 has raised edges that are now shinny. If the barrel had been buffed, I would not expect to see any raised surfaces around any of these numbers. They all have raised areas in varvious locations.

Thanks,
Larry

Ron Wood · 10-17-2010, 11:27 PM

I see halos. Very nice gun.

DavidJayUden · 10-17-2010, 11:50 PM

Thanks in advance for your comments.
Larry

I'm jealous.
dju

Ron Smith · 10-18-2010, 09:19 AM

I'm with Ron on this one. I've enhanced the photo, the halos are evident, and the texture and satin hue of the finish looks original.

A nice Imperial...

Ron

drbuster · 10-18-2010, 10:12 AM

To account for this Luger's great shape, it may either have been surrendered early on, or kept in its holster to the rear of most of the fighting, but this piece looks 100% OK IMO.

pitsword · 10-18-2010, 05:27 PM

Magnificent!

alanint · 10-18-2010, 07:05 PM

Well, I bow to consensus, then. (Funny, I'm usually the one exasperated when people cry "refinish")!

DavidJayUden · 10-18-2010, 07:21 PM

That straw coloring is a close to new condition as any that I have seen. Anyone have Luger's with that nice of straw?
dju

wlyon · 10-18-2010, 07:30 PM

I certaintly do not know whether it is original or not. However when I see one that old with that finish my hackles go up. Some of the numbers and the DWM appear to be fairly faint. This is one I would need to study in hand before I could say original. And maybe not then. There are some very nice restorations out there. Nice luger regardless. Bill

gozrula · 10-18-2010, 10:59 PM

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far.
I will say that this one had me going when alanint first questioned the finish. I have been over this thing multiple times in every nook and cranny with a magnifying glass looking for any signs of alteration. The gun is white inside, as it should be. The straw actually looks better in these pictures than it really is. I think it was the lighting. It was cloudy when I took the pictures outside.

Then I asked myself, if someone that had so much talent in boosting guns, waste their time on this one? They should be spending their time working on Navy’s. They have left no evidence I can see. They would have to had started with a gun in such good condition that it would almost not have been worth it. Wouldn’t the fact that the gun is unit marked with matching mag be enough? The mag shows hardly any use.

I trust and value all of your input here because I’m a “newbie”. Not to guns by any means but certainly to Lugers. I’ve seen my share of hacked guns and have been collecting/accumulating Winchesters, Walthers, Mausers, and Colts for years. It would really piss me off at this point in my gun collecting career to think this could happen to me, but it’s always possible.

But this is the reason we are here. I also wonder if I had posted this just saying here’s my gun, without calling any special attention to it, would we be discussing it now? It’s just a clean imperial. I’ve seen much better in Jan’s books.

gozrula · 10-18-2010, 11:37 PM

BTW, anyone here going to the Big Reno Gun Show next Month Nov 5-7? I will be there to of course follow my passion. I might even bring this thing if anyone even cared.

sheepherder · 10-19-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozrula

I’ve seen my share of hacked guns and...It would really piss me off at this point in my gun collecting career to think this could happen to me...

If I had happened on this Luger, it would not greatly concern me if others doubted its authenticity...

Thor makes great restorations; I have not seen any in person, but in pics they look as good as a new original...

And in the final analysis, that is all I really want...A pistol that looks like new...I don't really care if it spent its life in a closet, or was brought back from a tired user...

If this is indeed a restoration, then IMHO it is still worth whatever you paid for it...because this was a labor of love, by someone with an enviable gift of metalworking...

sabbathmusic · 10-19-2010, 09:43 AM

It looks original to me my friend. I been examining them for 24 years. The blueing on the gripstraps MAY have been touched up with a cold blue, BUT so what? I do not consider cold blue retouches as a genuine refinish. A genuine refinish is when the old blueing is removed from a wire wheel and it is polished. It looks legit to me. The fact is has the original magazine is amazing.

10-22-2010, 12:01 AM

The sear/trigger bar seems to have a different number on it than the rest of the parts which have 51. Cannot clearly see it due to lighting. What is the number?

10-17-2010, 08:38 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	A better shot of the barrel stampings, (i.e. serial number) without the white paint would help in rendering an opinion. At first sight and from the photos provided I'm going to say really nice rrestoration. Not the original finish Last edited by alanint; 10-17-2010 at 06:18 PM.

10-17-2010, 01:27 PM	#4
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More Photos I do understand that irrefutable evidence is required for qualified opinions from experts on this site and would expect no less. So, here’s another attempt at getting better camera angles after experimenting with lighting and removing the china marker as best I could without scrubbing. The halos around the numbers and metal displacement clearly showing stamping after bluing as much more evident. Bluing is 100% original. Also tried to capture better detail on the grip checkering which also serial match the gun as well as other angles of the frame. Straw is showing actually greater than 80% in these photos. Must be the lighting. I have nothing to gain by misrepresenting anything claimed here as I’m not selling and expect this to be my son’s someday. Thanks in advance for your comments. Larry Attached Thumbnails

10-17-2010, 01:58 PM	#5
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More info on this gun I bought this gun as a consignment from a reputable local dealer who I trust. The gun belonged to a gentleman in his 50’s who got it from his Grandfather. The Grandfather, who after living in the U.S. for many years returned to his home in the Fatherland. I wish I had more than that to share. I think this gun has been kept safely tucked away for many years out of circulation. Larry Last edited by gozrula; 10-17-2010 at 02:46 PM.

10-17-2010, 11:03 PM	#7
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1915 dwm Well the halos are hard to see and even harder to get a good picture of, for me at least with my camera setup. If you look at my second photo post, first picture, you can see faint evidence around the #3 and also on the bottom edge of the number #1. Also, the #1 has raised edges that are now shinny. If the barrel had been buffed, I would not expect to see any raised surfaces around any of these numbers. They all have raised areas in varvious locations. Thanks, Larry

10-17-2010, 11:27 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,005 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 5,139 Times in 1,689 Posts	I see halos. Very nice gun. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-16-2010, 08:19 PM	#1
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1915 DWM Photo Shoot Here’s an excellent specimen, my second Luger acquisition, of a unit marked 1915 DWM pistol. On the front grip you see: R. 135. 10.3. Regiment 135, Kompagnie 10, Waffe Nr. 3. I was told this gun was assigned to the 3. Lothringisches Infanterie Regiment Nr. 135. The regiment was part of the 33. inf. div and fought at the Western front. This gun is exceptionally clean except for some minor pitting in the barrel. I would rate this gun an overall ~98% Amazing that this gun could have survived as intact as it is given its history. Feedback requested. Thanks, Larry Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

10-17-2010, 06:27 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Hmmm, I'm still not convinced. Your barrel photos still show what I would consider buffed numbers and if you see haloes I certainly dont. Your photos tell me absolutely nothing new and the regimental markings on the front strap look buffed out and show no haloes either. You may be convinced but I certainly would not purchase this pistol as an original finish gun.

10-17-2010, 11:50 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Thanks in advance for your comments. Larry I'm jealous. dju

10-18-2010, 09:19 AM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I'm with Ron on this one. I've enhanced the photo, the halos are evident, and the texture and satin hue of the finish looks original. A nice Imperial... Ron Attached Images __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-18-2010, 10:12 AM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	To account for this Luger's great shape, it may either have been surrendered early on, or kept in its holster to the rear of most of the fighting, but this piece looks 100% OK IMO.

10-18-2010, 05:27 PM	#12
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,947 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	Magnificent!

10-18-2010, 07:05 PM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Well, I bow to consensus, then. (Funny, I'm usually the one exasperated when people cry "refinish")!

10-18-2010, 07:21 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	That straw coloring is a close to new condition as any that I have seen. Anyone have Luger's with that nice of straw? dju

10-18-2010, 07:30 PM	#15
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,625 Thanks: 3,165 Thanked 2,544 Times in 949 Posts	I certaintly do not know whether it is original or not. However when I see one that old with that finish my hackles go up. Some of the numbers and the DWM appear to be fairly faint. This is one I would need to study in hand before I could say original. And maybe not then. There are some very nice restorations out there. Nice luger regardless. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-18-2010, 10:59 PM	#16
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I will say that this one had me going when alanint first questioned the finish. I have been over this thing multiple times in every nook and cranny with a magnifying glass looking for any signs of alteration. The gun is white inside, as it should be. The straw actually looks better in these pictures than it really is. I think it was the lighting. It was cloudy when I took the pictures outside. Then I asked myself, if someone that had so much talent in boosting guns, waste their time on this one? They should be spending their time working on Navy’s. They have left no evidence I can see. They would have to had started with a gun in such good condition that it would almost not have been worth it. Wouldn’t the fact that the gun is unit marked with matching mag be enough? The mag shows hardly any use. I trust and value all of your input here because I’m a “newbie”. Not to guns by any means but certainly to Lugers. I’ve seen my share of hacked guns and have been collecting/accumulating Winchesters, Walthers, Mausers, and Colts for years. It would really piss me off at this point in my gun collecting career to think this could happen to me, but it’s always possible. But this is the reason we are here. I also wonder if I had posted this just saying here’s my gun, without calling any special attention to it, would we be discussing it now? It’s just a clean imperial. I’ve seen much better in Jan’s books.

10-18-2010, 11:37 PM	#17
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Big Reno Gun Show BTW, anyone here going to the Big Reno Gun Show next Month Nov 5-7? I will be there to of course follow my passion. I might even bring this thing if anyone even cared.

10-19-2010, 09:43 AM	#19
sabbathmusic Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It looks original to me my friend. I been examining them for 24 years. The blueing on the gripstraps MAY have been touched up with a cold blue, BUT so what? I do not consider cold blue retouches as a genuine refinish. A genuine refinish is when the old blueing is removed from a wire wheel and it is polished. It looks legit to me. The fact is has the original magazine is amazing.

10-22-2010, 12:01 AM	#20
Brad Guest Posts: n/a	The sear/trigger bar seems to have a different number on it than the rest of the parts which have 51. Cannot clearly see it due to lighting. What is the number?