Plum Swiss

mrerick · 12-08-2014, 04:11 PM

In the past couple of years, I have been lucky enough to acquire examples of each major Swiss Luger variation.

Some of these look to have been maintained under the ongoing Swiss Bern arsenal rebuild programs.

My 1900 (shipped from DWM in 1904) has both the upgraded Swiss extractor and a replacement barrel:

There is a very apparent plum color to the bluing on this replacement barrel, which is in very excellent condition. I don't think it was used or shot much after the replacement.

A few weeks ago, I acquired a M1906/29 Swiss Bern Luger vintage January, 1935. This one has extensive Sig manufacturing markings internally. It is all original, including the original barrel:

This Luger's barrel appears to have the same plum color as my M1900's replacement barrel.

Did the Swiss have a period around 1935 when new and replacement barrels had this finish tone?

My later 1938 vintage M1906/29 has a much blacker overall finish.

Thanks, Marc

Ben M. · 12-12-2014, 12:10 PM

maybe same problem mauser had with salt blueing?

mrerick · 12-12-2014, 12:12 PM

I'm not sure I'd identify it as a problem. It is certainly a variation, unless you dislike the color...

The color is involved in a combination of the alloy composition of the steel, the salt bluing chemical process, heat and time...

It's likely that the Swiss changed their approach after this since my 1938 has a very different and uniform almost black appearance.

Ben M. · 12-12-2014, 12:40 PM

by looking at simpson cite, you see some plum barrels on the red plastic lugers but here&there. many red guns have correct color to match guns. brown and black plastic guns seem ok with barrel colors. since this was a new gun and maybe some new metals, maybe it took time to learned the technique? do we see plum color on the bern06 guns?

mrerick · 12-12-2014, 04:11 PM

To some extent this is useful, since it gives a clue to when my M1900 Swiss might have been rebarreled. My guess now is early to mid 1930s.

Marc

Sergio Natali · 12-13-2014, 03:41 AM

I'm not an expert on blueing but as far as I know many P08 made after 1937 onward had ejectors with varying degrees of plum shades and that was apparently due to some sort of erroneous time/temperature control during the actual bluing process.

IMHO

Sergio

mrerick · 12-14-2014, 10:51 AM

Yes - I also have Mauser made Lugers from WW-II that show the plum colors.

A few years ago, I got a couple of Bavarian / Austrian re-issued M1 Carbines that show the deepest plum coloring of any metal I have. These were redone sometime after the end of WW-II through the 1960s.....

Here's a quick picture:

Ben M. · 12-18-2014, 08:35 PM

one with red barrel on auctions. early number.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=458986510

mrerick · 12-18-2014, 08:38 PM

At sn 50187, the one on Gunbroker is about 2,500 Lugers ahead of my plum Swiss...

Marc

12-08-2014, 04:11 PM	#1
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Plum Swiss In the past couple of years, I have been lucky enough to acquire examples of each major Swiss Luger variation. Some of these look to have been maintained under the ongoing Swiss Bern arsenal rebuild programs. My 1900 (shipped from DWM in 1904) has both the upgraded Swiss extractor and a replacement barrel: There is a very apparent plum color to the bluing on this replacement barrel, which is in very excellent condition. I don't think it was used or shot much after the replacement. A few weeks ago, I acquired a M1906/29 Swiss Bern Luger vintage January, 1935. This one has extensive Sig manufacturing markings internally. It is all original, including the original barrel: This Luger's barrel appears to have the same plum color as my M1900's replacement barrel. Did the Swiss have a period around 1935 when new and replacement barrels had this finish tone? My later 1938 vintage M1906/29 has a much blacker overall finish. Thanks, Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-12-2014, 12:12 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I'm not sure I'd identify it as a problem. It is certainly a variation, unless you dislike the color... The color is involved in a combination of the alloy composition of the steel, the salt bluing chemical process, heat and time... It's likely that the Swiss changed their approach after this since my 1938 has a very different and uniform almost black appearance. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-12-2014, 04:11 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	To some extent this is useful, since it gives a clue to when my M1900 Swiss might have been rebarreled. My guess now is early to mid 1930s. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-13-2014, 03:41 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I'm not an expert on blueing but as far as I know many P08 made after 1937 onward had ejectors with varying degrees of plum shades and that was apparently due to some sort of erroneous time/temperature control during the actual bluing process. IMHO Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-14-2014, 10:51 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Yes - I also have Mauser made Lugers from WW-II that show the plum colors. A few years ago, I got a couple of Bavarian / Austrian re-issued M1 Carbines that show the deepest plum coloring of any metal I have. These were redone sometime after the end of WW-II through the 1960s..... Here's a quick picture: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-12-2014, 12:10 PM	#2
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	maybe same problem mauser had with salt blueing?

12-12-2014, 12:40 PM	#4
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	by looking at simpson cite, you see some plum barrels on the red plastic lugers but here&there. many red guns have correct color to match guns. brown and black plastic guns seem ok with barrel colors. since this was a new gun and maybe some new metals, maybe it took time to learned the technique? do we see plum color on the bern06 guns?

12-18-2014, 08:35 PM	#8
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	one with red barrel on auctions. early number. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=458986510

12-18-2014, 08:38 PM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	At sn 50187, the one on Gunbroker is about 2,500 Lugers ahead of my plum Swiss... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.