Your expertise on my father's Luger

Thalie21 · 09-29-2009, 09:57 AM

Hi,
My name is Nathalie and I’m a french woman (seems to be quiet unusual on this forum…

)
My father has a Luger: I think it’s a very nice piece (have read a lot about, special thanks to Ed !), but I’m far to be an expert, so would appreciate your input to value.

SIMSON & C° SUHL
not dated (is that so called “blank chamber” ?)
military gun with proofs clearly visible: 3 Eagle 6, plus Weimar Eagle
matricule 6573 matching on all pieces (last two digits) plus Eagle proofs
Excellent condition, the finish is consistent all over the gun
Grip panels are dark brown bakelite
Safety marked “Gesichert”
Something I’ve never read before……2 magazines strucked “1” and “2”, with full matricule matching !

Thanks for your help

Ron Smith · 09-29-2009, 10:10 AM

Nathalie,

Welcome to the forum. It's refreshing to have a Lady posting.

Your Father's Luger appears to be a DDR VOPO (East German Police). Many thousands of Lugers were captured by the Russians. They reconditioned / refinished them by dipping in a chemical bluing bath, and placed them in storage.

Many of them were distributed to the East Germans for police issue. The grips with the roundel (Bull's Eye) are East German replacement grips. The "1" and "2" on the magazines indicate police issue. "1" being the primary magazine, and "2" being the spare magazine.

The value is enhanced somewhat by it being a Simson Luger. Here in the U.S. this luger would be valued at $1000-$1200. VOPO and Russian Capture (known as RC's) are gaining a collecting catagory of their own among some collectors.

I hope this helps.

Ron

Edward Tinker · 09-29-2009, 10:38 AM

Nathalie, welcome!

A few things to check and see if it is mostly original Simson parts.

1. Look at the bottom of the stock lug; look as if you are putting in a magazine / clip into it, from underneath. There should be 2 stamps, perhaps eagle 6 eagle 6 or eagle 33 eagle 33

2. What are the markings on the right of the gun? eagle 6 eagle 33 eagle 6 big proof eagle?

3. Are all the small parts marked with an eagle 6?

Ed

Thalie21 · 09-29-2009, 11:48 AM

As you've guessed my english vocabulary is not focused on weapons, so thanks a lot to have been so accurate in description it helps me a lot !

1. See 1st picture: is it the correct part of the gun you ask for ?
If so, it is eagle 6 (2 times)

2. I confirme: the right side shows eagle 6 (3 times) and big proof eagle (I call it "Weimar eagle"...) See picture 2 (poor quality picture...sorry)

3. There are eagle 6 and the 2 last digits of matricule all around the gun

From what I've read, it looks like a full Simson ? is'nt it ?

Nathalie

PS: Is that of any interest to send information on this Luger to 1925Simson@comcast.net and SimsonLugers@verizon.net.....these info might get back to your database ?

Thalie21 · 10-03-2009, 10:38 AM

Hi Ed,

Some better pictures.
I've made a quick check: about 19 "Eagle 6" proofs in total

Some details on magazines: FXO + an other design of Eagle = "Eagle 37"

Does it change anything in your conclusions ?

Thanks
Nathalie

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Outstanding. Yes, the simsonlugers@verizon.net is my website, hosted here by my friend John.

Your magazine is incorrect for this luger made by Simson and then this was refurbished / used by the east germans, thus the reblue and the 1 & 2 bases and the grips appear to be the bulleye type of east german grips.

Although I say incorrect, it is correct as east german replacements, but not correct per simson manufacturer.

Ed

Thalie21 · 10-04-2009, 06:37 AM

Does this mean this gun as rare as I did imagine ?

If so, please could you give me - even roughly - a value ?

If it worth, you might be interessed to get ? My father wish to separate from a part of his collector...

By the way, a BIG THANK to you, gentlemen !
I've been impressed with such a knowledge...and kindness to share with others !

Keep on and take care
Nathalie

Edward Tinker · 10-04-2009, 09:21 AM

Nathalie, these are rare, but not highly priced yet in the USA, however, a Vopo loses most of its collector value.

non Vopo Simson = maybe 2500 euro

Vope Simson = maybe 700-900 euro

at my best guesses comparing to USA prices.

Ed

09-29-2009, 09:57 AM	#1
Thalie21 New User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: FRANCE Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Your expertise on my father's Luger Hi, My name is Nathalie and I’m a french woman (seems to be quiet unusual on this forum… ) My father has a Luger: I think it’s a very nice piece (have read a lot about, special thanks to Ed !), but I’m far to be an expert, so would appreciate your input to value. SIMSON & C° SUHL not dated (is that so called “blank chamber” ?) military gun with proofs clearly visible: 3 Eagle 6, plus Weimar Eagle matricule 6573 matching on all pieces (last two digits) plus Eagle proofs Excellent condition, the finish is consistent all over the gun Grip panels are dark brown bakelite Safety marked “Gesichert” Something I’ve never read before……2 magazines strucked “1” and “2”, with full matricule matching ! Thanks for your help Attached Thumbnails

09-29-2009, 10:10 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Nathalie, Welcome to the forum. It's refreshing to have a Lady posting. Your Father's Luger appears to be a DDR VOPO (East German Police). Many thousands of Lugers were captured by the Russians. They reconditioned / refinished them by dipping in a chemical bluing bath, and placed them in storage. Many of them were distributed to the East Germans for police issue. The grips with the roundel (Bull's Eye) are East German replacement grips. The "1" and "2" on the magazines indicate police issue. "1" being the primary magazine, and "2" being the spare magazine. The value is enhanced somewhat by it being a Simson Luger. Here in the U.S. this luger would be valued at $1000-$1200. VOPO and Russian Capture (known as RC's) are gaining a collecting catagory of their own among some collectors. I hope this helps. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-29-2009, 10:38 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Nathalie, welcome! A few things to check and see if it is mostly original Simson parts. 1. Look at the bottom of the stock lug; look as if you are putting in a magazine / clip into it, from underneath. There should be 2 stamps, perhaps eagle 6 eagle 6 or eagle 33 eagle 33 2. What are the markings on the right of the gun? eagle 6 eagle 33 eagle 6 big proof eagle? 3. Are all the small parts marked with an eagle 6? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-29-2009, 11:48 AM	#4
Thalie21 New User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: FRANCE Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As you've guessed my english vocabulary is not focused on weapons, so thanks a lot to have been so accurate in description it helps me a lot ! 1. See 1st picture: is it the correct part of the gun you ask for ? If so, it is eagle 6 (2 times) 2. I confirme: the right side shows eagle 6 (3 times) and big proof eagle (I call it "Weimar eagle"...) See picture 2 (poor quality picture...sorry) 3. There are eagle 6 and the 2 last digits of matricule all around the gun From what I've read, it looks like a full Simson ? is'nt it ? Nathalie PS: Is that of any interest to send information on this Luger to 1925Simson@comcast.net and SimsonLugers@verizon.net.....these info might get back to your database ? Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2009, 10:38 AM	#5
Thalie21 New User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: FRANCE Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ed, Some better pictures. I've made a quick check: about 19 "Eagle 6" proofs in total Some details on magazines: FXO + an other design of Eagle = "Eagle 37" Does it change anything in your conclusions ? Thanks Nathalie Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2009, 07:19 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Outstanding. Yes, the simsonlugers@verizon.net is my website, hosted here by my friend John. Your magazine is incorrect for this luger made by Simson and then this was refurbished / used by the east germans, thus the reblue and the 1 & 2 bases and the grips appear to be the bulleye type of east german grips. Although I say incorrect, it is correct as east german replacements, but not correct per simson manufacturer. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-04-2009, 06:37 AM	#7
Thalie21 New User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: FRANCE Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does this mean this gun as rare as I did imagine ? If so, please could you give me - even roughly - a value ? If it worth, you might be interessed to get ? My father wish to separate from a part of his collector... By the way, a BIG THANK to you, gentlemen ! I've been impressed with such a knowledge...and kindness to share with others ! Keep on and take care Nathalie

10-04-2009, 09:21 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Nathalie, these are rare, but not highly priced yet in the USA, however, a Vopo loses most of its collector value. non Vopo Simson = maybe 2500 euro Vope Simson = maybe 700-900 euro at my best guesses comparing to USA prices. Ed