Inspection Before Buying

[wrangler5050]

First time posting so far... I have been interested in Lugers for many years and have been shopping for awhile (waiting on an affordable entry into collecting). I am going to look at one this weekend and was hoping to get a few pointers about what to look for, besides the usual gun-buying inspection points. All i know for sure is it's marked "1937" I don't know the manufacturer yet. Thanks for the input and sorry if this topic already exists on the forum somewhere else.

[Mac Cat]

If you can get closeup photos of the gun, you can get some better opinions here on the forum. You should includes close-ups of the top, the front (with the Serial numbers of the frame and the barrel), each side, and on the grip, if there are unit markings on the front or back of the grip. We all enjoy examining and commenting on guns shown here!

Personally, I wanted at least one Luger that I was comfortable shooting (normally, a "shooter" is a gun that isn't collectable for any number of reasons: All the parts don't have matching serial numbers, it's been refinished, or the acceptance stamps are suspect. Some Lugers have very few proof stamps, particularly those intended for export or non-military use.

If the Luger is in good working order and can be fired safely, is probably worth anywhere from $900 - $1200.

If it has any visible cracks or damage to the vital parts, it's probably not worth $300-$400 (value of good parts).

Also, accessories sometimes are worth almost as much as the gun. A good holster, the tool, the magazine clip, and any paperwork that tracks the gun's possession and past, all can make it more interesting and valuable.

You have to decide what your budget is, what you want from a Luger, and in particular, if you want to shoot it or not.

If you just want to see how it operates, assembles, etc, you may be happy with a gun not suitable for shooting. You may even find a gun with missing parts, as there is a pretty good market for spare parts.

If you have never handled a Luger before, I would suggest you buy it with the condition that you can return it, un-fired, after at least 3-day examination. That would give you time to look it over carefully, do some basic research, and/or take it to a knowledgeable gun smith for inspection.

My recommendation is to pickup some books, ASAP.
There are some downloadable books on this web site and occasionally, some for sale.
Amazon has quite a few excellent Luger books.

That's my 2 cents.

(BTW, the FAQ link it on the top of the web page! There is another in the General Information link on the left column)

[ithacaartist]

David, welcome to the forum. You have posted in the correct place.

If it's marked 1937, it's a Mauser. I believe this was the year that the finishing process changed from all the slow hand work of rust bluing, to hot salt bluing in big batches. Depending on whether early or late '37, it will either have strawed small parts, or they will be salt blued along with the rest of the gun. The 'Mauser hump" also figures in somewhere in this period, but I'm not sure of the date it was phased in.

Best to post some close, clear pics to optimize the "remote-control" analysis available here.

[derf0018]

ithacaartist:
Krieghoffs also were dated 1937. Yes, 1937 (about the q block) was when Mauser changed from
rust blue/straw to all blue (salt blue).

Fred

[DavidJayUden]

W:
Good advice so far. See if the seller will allow you to take photos and we'll assist you. There is a lot to look for and can be a huge variety in pricing, so take it slow. The Devil's in the details, and those details will put it into one of 2 categories, either shooter or collectable.
We'll wait for more info.
dju

[alvin]

Yeah. Take pictures and post here. There are many Luger collectors in this forum. They know this. Although it's not hand-on checking, but that's still much safer this way. If seller does not allow you to take pictures, walk away.

[tomaustin]

one of you photo-pros need to give him a quick setup for decent photos....

[Edward Tinker]

Read the FAQ, read all the stickies on the new collector part of the forum.

Generally its best to buy books before guns, but most buy one then learn...

[wrangler5050]

Ok, Thanks everyone for the input. I guess i should have been more clear in my original post, but I have been researching Lugers for quite some time, including books and online, the the message was received nonetheless.

Attached are several pics of the Luger in question. I apologize if the quality is not good enough. I was trying to mimic other photos on the sight but was having difficulties. If you all need better photos, I will have someone give me a hand the next time.

From what I can tell, almost everything matches except for the 2 halves of the toggle, the grips and the mag. the finish is pretty rough and the bore shows some pitting but the lands/grooves are still crisp (hard to see from the picture). also, based on the lack of proof marks, i'm assuming this is a commercial model?


Thanks for the help.

[alvin]

Even German commercial model should have proof marks. But for this one, you cannot be too serious. It should be a WWI gun or a 1920 gun with stock lug grounded off. A replacement pencil barrel installed on it.

I would say bypass this one. I know it's cheap. But there are many good ones also cheap showing up from time to time. Just need to wait.

[DavidJayUden]

This one definitely falls to the low end of the shooter category. If I may be blunt: Have you bought it, and if not, what is the asking price?
dju

[alanint]

This is not an example I would proudly pull out to show friends "my Luger".

The condition may preclude safety issues, as well. Be patient until something better comes along.

[Mac Cat]

Thanks for the pictures! Just getting that far and uploading photos is a challenge! Already, we can see the overall condition of the gun is very poor, the extension lug on the grip has been ground off, and the barrel appears to be a replacement.

I should have pointed out that the primary FAQ link is in the top menu. It's a post with a link to a PDF file you download. Also, there is a another FAQ with photos under "General Information", on the left column. It has a link back to the main FAQ post, too. Both are worth reading.

Under the "New Collectors" topics, you will find some hints on photo tips, too. You can upload a wide variety of photo file types:
Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip

Take you photos in a room with bright light from at least two different directions. Don't bother using a flash. Outdoor lighting usually works really well. Cell phone cameras work amazingly well.

Areas of particular attention should be each side, as you did, with a close up of all the proof marks and serials numbers, the toggle and the chamber. The next important spot you got was the full serial number on the front of the frame, but there will be another serial number under the barrel (it probably won't match, because your barrel appears to be a replacement).

[rhuff]

From what I can see in the photos, this Luger would have to be very cheap before I would consider it. A "tired" old girl with a lot of changes. It could be a shooter, or a parts gun.

[ithacaartist]

What follows may not interest the serious collectors...but I think this pistol is sort of fun. C'mon, its a Luger! I would never be ashamed to let it be an example, if only of a harrrd life. It actually is a fine example of several things that should not be done to them...and discovering and cataloging its deficits as an example, can itself be kind of fascinating. If you can get this cheap enough, none of these discoveries would be a disappointment--merely another nuance in its character.

It does appear to be a mix-master, buffed, ground off, re-blued, front sight challenged, pitted, heartbreak. (Wow, a list this long is somewhat of an event!) Pistols like this are like a trip to the SPCA. This poor thing could be compared to a person who has to sneak up on a glass of water.

So here we are, in the $300 range, give or take--preferably take. Consider that the owner of this one would be able to shoot it anxiety-free with absolutely no worry about breaking any part, serialized or not. It may be a good gun for learning about the care and feeding aspects, as well as an example for exploring the mechanics and unique systems of the Parabellum. And I've also heard tell they are fun to shoot.

The proof of the pudding is ultimately in the shooting. If it is your desire to do so, someone qualified should assess its structural integrity--in hand-- and render judgment as to whether shooting is even feasible. It is frequent to see a gun look like this on the exterior, but find it to be clean and sound internally, so there's hope. If its action and major components can be given a clean bill of health, who cares if it had acne as a teenager? And it matters not, for a shooter, that it carries parts from disparate cousins!

In the meantime, do you think you could provide shots of it field stripped? We may be able to save you that trip to a local expert.

p.s. You used natural light for your shots, but from a window, which is too directional, creates soft glare and shadows. Setup in the open if you have overcast conditions, or in the shade of one of those white canopies on a sunny day will get you better results--mother nature helps you create a giant light-box.

[wrangler5050]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

What follows may not interest the serious collectors...but I think this pistol is sort of fun. C'mon, its a Luger!

ithacaartist, I want to thank you for your perspective. based on the comments so far I was hesitant to admit that I was able to obtain this piece for $2oo, and jumped at the chance. I am well aware that this particular example is far so far from collectable/desirable to most that is would have been passed over by many, if not most, of the members of this forum, but this is my first foray into world of Luger-ownership and after close inspection and with some trepidation, I plunked down my money (actually it was a trade) and bought this piece as a stepping stone.

I wasn't looking for a display piece, a collector, for bragging rights, or even for a correct firearm. All i wanted in my first Luger was a shooter. As it has been suggested, I already talked to my Gunsmith about having it inspected, and I will also try to post some pictures of this gun field stripped.

To the rest of you, thanks for the input and honesty.

[DavidJayUden]

At $200 you did well. Enjoy it, learn from it, play with it, and decide what is next. Congratulations!
dju

[Mac Cat]

I agree! Congratulations !!
Please keep sharing your experience with this gun, too!

[DonVoigt]

Wrangler,
good for you and welcome.

When you are finished playing with it, I'll give you the $200 for it!

It is just so "ugly" it needs a home!

[sheepherder]

It does look, in one pic, as though the frame may have the Mauser hump...And the barrel appears to be a 30 cal 120mm barrel...But it might be a 9mm Tikkakoski 120mm; they are quite similar (especially the distinctive 'squared' front sight blade & base/band)...

Worth quite a bit more that $200...in parts...