Russian Rework Question

MarkC · 09-19-2004, 10:35 PM

Guys,

Some help here, this Russian rework has a unit marking on the grip. Are we looking at a WWI frame with a WWII top end? I didn't think there were many WWII unit marked P08's....

All numbers on the small parts are either renumbered or original numbers including the firing pin.

Recruiting Depot of an Infantry Regiment????

Mark

Frank · 09-20-2004, 09:39 AM

Hi Mark, I would say your theory is correct! If the chamber date is 1939 and the toggle is an S/42, only N thru Q Blocks were produced. If one assumes the top end is from the same pistol, then the frame is from a different one. The unit markings hint of a WWI Luger, but off-hand I can't identify them, without some additional research.

Dwight Gruber · 09-20-2004, 09:56 AM

The slash in the unit mark is indicitave of a Weimar Army mark. I'm not sufficiently kowledgable about these to go further, however.

--Dwight

Tim · 09-20-2004, 12:38 PM

Interesting grips... I have a dip re blued S/42 shooter that is the only other pistol I've seen with those exact grips. I always presumed they were either East German or Russian in origin. any comments from the group?
Tim

George Anderson · 09-20-2004, 03:09 PM

The unit marking is Weimar period as Dwight observed. It is Reichswehr and indicates 4th Eskdron, 5th Reiter-Regiment, Waffen number 52.

It's a shame that it is a parts gun as Reichswehr unit markings are the rarest of of such markings due to its restricted size.

MarkC · 09-20-2004, 03:11 PM

Thanks George, great info!

Tim,

The grips on my guns are Russian. The East German grips are brown or black plastic with a "bullseye" in the center. I bought the gun with "Black Widow" grips on it and decided to put on the Russian grips since it is a Russian rework. Besides the Black Widow grips are too valuable to put on a shooter.

Mark

Lugerdoc · 09-21-2004, 09:40 AM

Mark, In addition to the black verticle grooved grips shown, the Russian also manufactured checkered black "BW" type grips, but the checkering is courser and they don't have the threaded hole inside. TH

Vlim · 09-21-2004, 09:49 AM

Hi,

An illustration of the grips with and without pistol attached:

These grips bear a resemblance to those used on the Russian Tokarev pistols and indeed differ from the East-German 'VoPo' bullseye grips.

Usually they require some fitting to get a really snug fit, but they provide a good grip and are currently my favorite shooting grips.

I believe these grips were used on P08s that saw service in CCCP-states and that the other, much cheaper-looking black grips commonly found on ex-Russian capture pistols were only made in order to sell the pistols off with grips on them, as the original wooden grips had been discarded before pistol storage/preservation.

Of course the VoPo grips have a completely different history and are illustrated in 1960's Eastern-German manuals:

09-19-2004, 10:35 PM	#1
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Russian Rework Question Guys, Some help here, this Russian rework has a unit marking on the grip. Are we looking at a WWI frame with a WWII top end? I didn't think there were many WWII unit marked P08's.... All numbers on the small parts are either renumbered or original numbers including the firing pin. Recruiting Depot of an Infantry Regiment???? Mark

09-20-2004, 12:38 PM	#4
Tim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Interesting grips... I have a dip re blued S/42 shooter that is the only other pistol I've seen with those exact grips. I always presumed they were either East German or Russian in origin. any comments from the group? Tim __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...

09-21-2004, 09:40 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mark, In addition to the black verticle grooved grips shown, the Russian also manufactured checkered black "BW" type grips, but the checkering is courser and they don't have the threaded hole inside. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-20-2004, 09:39 AM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Mark, I would say your theory is correct! If the chamber date is 1939 and the toggle is an S/42, only N thru Q Blocks were produced. If one assumes the top end is from the same pistol, then the frame is from a different one. The unit markings hint of a WWI Luger, but off-hand I can't identify them, without some additional research.

09-20-2004, 09:56 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The slash in the unit mark is indicitave of a Weimar Army mark. I'm not sufficiently kowledgable about these to go further, however. --Dwight

09-20-2004, 03:09 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,771 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The unit marking is Weimar period as Dwight observed. It is Reichswehr and indicates 4th Eskdron, 5th Reiter-Regiment, Waffen number 52. It's a shame that it is a parts gun as Reichswehr unit markings are the rarest of of such markings due to its restricted size.

09-20-2004, 03:11 PM	#6
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Thanks George, great info! Tim, The grips on my guns are Russian. The East German grips are brown or black plastic with a "bullseye" in the center. I bought the gun with "Black Widow" grips on it and decided to put on the Russian grips since it is a Russian rework. Besides the Black Widow grips are too valuable to put on a shooter. Mark

09-21-2004, 09:49 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, An illustration of the grips with and without pistol attached: These grips bear a resemblance to those used on the Russian Tokarev pistols and indeed differ from the East-German 'VoPo' bullseye grips. Usually they require some fitting to get a really snug fit, but they provide a good grip and are currently my favorite shooting grips. I believe these grips were used on P08s that saw service in CCCP-states and that the other, much cheaper-looking black grips commonly found on ex-Russian capture pistols were only made in order to sell the pistols off with grips on them, as the original wooden grips had been discarded before pistol storage/preservation. Of course the VoPo grips have a completely different history and are illustrated in 1960's Eastern-German manuals: