ugly erfurts

05-06-2002, 05:32 PM

just got my first erfurt this weekend. a 1917 4inch 9mm erfurt. boy is it plum ugly. it's in pretty decnt shape, all matching and nice finish left, but the machining is awful. it looks like someone used a dull butter knife to machine this. are they all like this?

Greg · 05-06-2002, 06:59 PM

Tom, I've got one as the same vintage as your's, supposedly in near mint condition. However, I must agree wth your comments! You can tell that Erfurt didn't have to be concerned with cosmetics.

Bernard · 05-06-2002, 07:22 PM

I remember hearing various stories about the Erfurt machinery. Even 'back then', they were not as nicely done as the DWM ones. If I remember right, and someone correct me, the DWM production line went to Mauser. The Erfurt production line went to Simpson, who had a heck of a time building accepatble pistols with it and the machinery was retired (scrapped?.

05-06-2002, 08:10 PM

Erfurt to Simpson and then the tooling went to Krieghoff in 1934. Most think Krieghoff only used the old Simpson tooling as a tool template to make the Krieghoof machinery...

Erfurt did seem to bypass cosmetics and focused mostly on functionality and reliability of the lugers they made...

05-06-2002, 08:28 PM

Tom,

Some of the early Erfurt's especially in the 1913 period were as beautiful as the DWM's. I guess there machinery did wear out or they got in a hurry!

Dan Clemons · 05-06-2002, 08:29 PM

05-06-2002, 09:05 PM

Theres just something about them! I have a soft spot for those old war horses! They might not be pretty but I like em!

Brandon

Greg · 05-06-2002, 09:46 PM

I agree with you Brandon. There's something appealing about the "ugly duckling" member of the Luger family

05-06-2002, 09:59 PM

i did'nt say i didn't like them...just that it was one ugly gun.

05-06-2002, 10:19 PM

Ron Wood · 05-06-2002, 10:46 PM

When you consider that DWM had been turning out commercial as well as military Lugers for several years and had that finishing process as standard, and then you have an arsenal pressed into service to build new weapons from scratch, old Erfurt didn't do too badly. I have a 1912 DWM and a 1912 Erfurt, both in pretty good condition, and side by side they compare favorably. Sure, the Erfurt doesn't have quite as "soft" a finish and the machine marks in the rear frame ramp are a little more conspicuous, but you wouldn't be ashamed to take her to the dance.

05-06-2002, 11:51 PM

I agree with the comment that the early Erfurts were very comparable with the military contract DWMs of the same period. I have near mint Erfurt (1917) that is different story. It had many machine marks and even some "dings"...that are under the original finish! It appears that it had perhaps one application of the rust blue finish rather than multiple coats. The finish is a gray hue with a hint of blue tone.

All of that said, I have never seen a pistol that sets off a display of WWI German combat feldgrau uniform etc...like that one...it very much conveys a "WWI German Look".

Erfurts were the only German Luger to be manufactured at a "Royal Arsenal" and in that sense were made by the goverment rather than contracted.

Erfurts were made in less quanity than either DWM or Mauser.

It's funny to me that WWII German Rifle collectors pay a premium for rough forged,machined "kriegsmodel" Mauser K98k's (sometimes several times what nice early ones bring)but the late war Erfurts from WWI seemed to get less favorable press.

Johnny Peppers · 05-07-2002, 12:09 AM

I have to agree on the early Erfurts being much better than the late pistols. I have a 1914 Erfurt P08 that has a beautiful finish. Even the DWM pistols were suffering from a letdown in quality toward the end of WWI.

Bernard · 05-07-2002, 05:33 PM

Roadkill · 05-07-2002, 07:25 PM

I've got a dog named Buster. If the light catches him right after I've had about 6-8 beers and he turns a little to the left he ain't all that ugly. My Erfurt is kinda like that. Take off my glasses, squint a little, it ain't bad looking. I've had too many beautiful women leave me and too many pure bred dogs not be worth a damn to be impressed with appearance over reliability. Erfurts are like that. They weren't made to be pretty, just functional.

Roadkill

Greg · 05-07-2002, 07:41 PM

AMEN!

05-07-2002, 07:44 PM

05-08-2002, 08:34 AM

I don't think that the machinery wore out, but the war time pressure to up production, led to less polishing and fewer coats of rust blue. Tom h

05-06-2002, 05:32 PM	#1
tom collins Guest Posts: n/a	ugly erfurts just got my first erfurt this weekend. a 1917 4inch 9mm erfurt. boy is it plum ugly. it's in pretty decnt shape, all matching and nice finish left, but the machining is awful. it looks like someone used a dull butter knife to machine this. are they all like this?

05-06-2002, 06:59 PM	#2
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: ugly erfurts Tom, I've got one as the same vintage as your's, supposedly in near mint condition. However, I must agree wth your comments! You can tell that Erfurt didn't have to be concerned with cosmetics.

05-06-2002, 07:22 PM	#3
Bernard User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ugly erfurts I remember hearing various stories about the Erfurt machinery. Even 'back then', they were not as nicely done as the DWM ones. If I remember right, and someone correct me, the DWM production line went to Mauser. The Erfurt production line went to Simpson, who had a heck of a time building accepatble pistols with it and the machinery was retired (scrapped?.

05-06-2002, 08:10 PM	#4
Wm. "Pete Guest Posts: n/a	Simpson To krieghoff Hand-Off... Erfurt to Simpson and then the tooling went to Krieghoff in 1934. Most think Krieghoff only used the old Simpson tooling as a tool template to make the Krieghoof machinery... Erfurt did seem to bypass cosmetics and focused mostly on functionality and reliability of the lugers they made...

05-06-2002, 08:28 PM	#5
Addicted Guest Posts: n/a	Early Erfurt's Beautiful Tom, Some of the early Erfurt's especially in the 1913 period were as beautiful as the DWM's. I guess there machinery did wear out or they got in a hurry!

05-06-2002, 08:29 PM	#6
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Well that does it! No Erfurts for me. (EOM)

05-06-2002, 09:05 PM	#7
Brandon Metcalf Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry but I like my Erfurts Theres just something about them! I have a soft spot for those old war horses! They might not be pretty but I like em! Brandon

05-06-2002, 09:46 PM	#8
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Sorry but I like my Erfurts I agree with you Brandon. There's something appealing about the "ugly duckling" member of the Luger family

05-06-2002, 09:59 PM	#9
tom collins Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Sorry but I like my Erfurts i did'nt say i didn't like them...just that it was one ugly gun.

05-06-2002, 10:19 PM	#10
Brandon Metcalf Guest Posts: n/a	That I can agree with! (EOM)

05-06-2002, 10:46 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Re: Sorry but I like my Erfurts When you consider that DWM had been turning out commercial as well as military Lugers for several years and had that finishing process as standard, and then you have an arsenal pressed into service to build new weapons from scratch, old Erfurt didn't do too badly. I have a 1912 DWM and a 1912 Erfurt, both in pretty good condition, and side by side they compare favorably. Sure, the Erfurt doesn't have quite as "soft" a finish and the machine marks in the rear frame ramp are a little more conspicuous, but you wouldn't be ashamed to take her to the dance.

05-06-2002, 11:51 PM	#12
bcc Guest Posts: n/a	Erfurts are underated! I agree with the comment that the early Erfurts were very comparable with the military contract DWMs of the same period. I have near mint Erfurt (1917) that is different story. It had many machine marks and even some "dings"...that are under the original finish! It appears that it had perhaps one application of the rust blue finish rather than multiple coats. The finish is a gray hue with a hint of blue tone. All of that said, I have never seen a pistol that sets off a display of WWI German combat feldgrau uniform etc...like that one...it very much conveys a "WWI German Look". Erfurts were the only German Luger to be manufactured at a "Royal Arsenal" and in that sense were made by the goverment rather than contracted. Erfurts were made in less quanity than either DWM or Mauser. It's funny to me that WWII German Rifle collectors pay a premium for rough forged,machined "kriegsmodel" Mauser K98k's (sometimes several times what nice early ones bring)but the late war Erfurts from WWI seemed to get less favorable press.

05-07-2002, 12:09 AM	#13
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Early Erfurt's Beautiful I have to agree on the early Erfurts being much better than the late pistols. I have a 1914 Erfurt P08 that has a beautiful finish. Even the DWM pistols were suffering from a letdown in quality toward the end of WWI.

05-07-2002, 05:33 PM	#14
Bernard User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forgot Krieghoff ... Thanks (EOM)

05-07-2002, 07:25 PM	#15
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Forgot Krieghoff ... Thanks I've got a dog named Buster. If the light catches him right after I've had about 6-8 beers and he turns a little to the left he ain't all that ugly. My Erfurt is kinda like that. Take off my glasses, squint a little, it ain't bad looking. I've had too many beautiful women leave me and too many pure bred dogs not be worth a damn to be impressed with appearance over reliability. Erfurts are like that. They weren't made to be pretty, just functional. Roadkill

05-07-2002, 07:41 PM	#16
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Forgot Krieghoff ... Thanks AMEN!

05-07-2002, 07:44 PM	#17
Brandon Metcalf Guest Posts: n/a	I couldn't have said it better Roadkill! (EOM)

05-08-2002, 08:34 AM	#18
Tom Heller Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Early Erfurt's Beautiful I don't think that the machinery wore out, but the war time pressure to up production, led to less polishing and fewer coats of rust blue. Tom h