Problems w/Luger pistol

[RobW]

1916 Luger P08 in 9 mm has a lot of problems to feed. Despite 3 (new) different magazines, every magazine produces a FTF. Some of the rounds ar jammed at the bottom of the ramp/chamber, some at top of the chamber. The magazines have some play, but even when the magazine is pushed upwards during shooting, the FTF occures.

The magazine play is the same in a different 1936 .30 Luger that uses the same magazines.

Has someone an idea what causes the jams?

I posted this topic at The Firing Line and the unison reply was that the ammo has to be on the hot side. Sellier & Bellot and Fiocci were mentioned. Has anyone solved the mentioned problem with hotter loads?

[John Sabato]

1st make sure the Luger is clean and lubricated... breakfree is fine for this job.

If you fire a single round from the pistol with an empty magazine does the toggle stay open consistently?

If it does, then the ammo is probably hot enough... if it doesn't, perhaps the ammo is not the problem but maybe the strength of the recoil mainspring is...

These springs are available in three different strengths... Perhaps you need a softer mainspring.

You could experiment with trimming the existing mainspring a half coil at a time, but don't do this if the pistol is all original and matching... get a second spring for experimentation or buy the set... Wolf Springs have a website and are located on the Links & Resources page ... you will find the URL for this page on the Lugerforum homepage in the left frame.

welcome to the Lugerforum... let us know how you make out with the adjustments.

[Thor]

A couple other things to look at, first, make sure those three magazine have plenty of strength in the spring and the rounds move fast and clear without hanging up in the mag. Also check the extractor, it must rock back and forth smoothly when you push on it with your thumb, it also must have quite a bit of spring pressure to work correctly. A bad fit of the extractor or a very weak extractor spring can cause failures to feed.

[unspellable]

I have not tested Fiocchi 9 mm loads, but their 7.65 mm loads are very mild.

I have just experienced several malfunctions in more or less new after market magazines that were due to the magazines themselves.

Before shooting, try loading the magazines and stripping them by hand. I've discovered magazine hangups this way.

After firing one round to see if the hold open works, start increasing the number of rounds in the magazine one at a time. I've had magazines work well with three or four rounds but hangup with eight rounds.

A comment on recoil springs. First, don't cut the original, you want to keep it original. Second don't cut a factory spring, you will reduce the pre-loaded faster than the loaded force leading to various problems.

Wolff springs are longer than standard and have a higher than standard preload. They may be the logical candidates for cutting as the pre-load will not fall off so fast as you cut the spring down.

[Stevie]

I had simular jam problems with my DWM, Winchester ammo worked best. I bought new mags, old mags, 115gr and 124gr ammo of many brands, but couldn't make the gun work right. Jams were always more frequent when it was cold outside. I fixed the problem with a wolff 36lb mainspring. I don't think this gun has failed me since. If the weapon is in good shape you might give it a try.
Good luck, Stevie.

[G.W. Gill]

I have found that the angle of round as it leaves the magazine is crucial. Also the spring had to be tuned to the ammo. Most of my problems were cured with a pair of needle nosed pliers and a little bending in of the top of the mag at its narrowest. About center above the magazine follower. I just measured my functioning FXO mags and they came out to about 4MM wide where the angle is formed.
I'm not a gunsmith, but I have done this with 50 or 60 mags and it has worked. Be careful! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

[MHans]

I had a similar problem with mine. I found a doc on the internet, which I purchased. It was an e-book about lugers. It mentioned that the ammo in a luger clip does not lie flat upon each other like other mags. The cartridges are LONGER than the standard. A factory load is about 1.5" long. These lie flat on top of each other in a luger mag. The Luger was designed so that the base of each cartridge touches the one above and below it. BUT the bullet point rides on the side of the magazine. That means that each cartridge is on a slightly higher angle than the one below it. (or in other words, the cases are not touching each other except for the very base). I tried various lengths and found that a cartridge length of about 1.8" was about right. And since then, with the standard springs and all, it seems to work reliably. By the way, this also explains why hollow points don't work well, and why Lead round nose bullets jam.

[RobW]

I only had time the last weekend to try out some different ammo (the Luger is my friend's that is lucky enough not to have a computer!).

With all tried ammo (Fiocci, Remington high velocity, and South Africa surplus) we had jams. So we try out all the other advice one at a time to determine what causes the trouble.

We'll keep you posted.

[Frank]

Michael, would you please check your measurements. My hand loads (and some factory ammo) are 1.156 inches over-all length. Some factory loads are 1.116 inches OA. I really don't believe a cartridge of 1.8 inches would even fit into a Luger magazine!!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[Lugerdoc]

A couple of other things to check that haven't already been mentioned: make sure that your ejector (on right side of receiver) is moving freely and that the tip that extends into the receiver is not damaged. Also the recoil link, that connects the toggle to the recoil assy, sometimes gets "bent out of shape" and causes the breech block to remain too far forward to properly pick up the next round. Tom H.

[wterrell]

RobW,
There is a nice E-book titled Luger Mechanical Features by Henrotin and Wilson that discusses load, feed, and firing problem in depth. The E-book costs $7.95 and is available from http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/amazon/lubooks.HTM

Good reading!

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Hi

I use stainless mags from tripple K, I think they works the best.

Many Lugers have in my opinion to strong recoilsprings compered to the ammo that is avalible.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

[glenn s]

I Never had a jam on feeding with the artillary luger I built, but I have encountered some extraction problems, as the empty case would stay in the chamber and the bolt would strip a new cartridge and jam against the chambered empty.Does anyone know why the chamber n my 1916 artillary bbl is slightly stepped. the chamber is good and smooth. no rust or pits?

[John Sabato]

The slight step in the chamber is normal, but I can't tell you why it is there. Polish the chamber, and make sure your extractor is not worn. with the toggle removed from the gun and the firing pin assembly removed from the toggle, you should be able to put a cartridge case on the face of the bolt held in place by the extractor and the hold should provide reasonably good resistance to plucking the round straight off the bolt face. If you can easily remove the case, then perhaps your extractor is too worn to function properly...