New Member

Jean-Pierre · 02-04-2013, 01:51 PM

Hi, I'm just logging in for the first time, so be indulgent with a beginner !!!!!!
I have bought in last december a Byf 41 Luger sold to me as a VoPo (Volks Polizei) Luger. What is strange to me is that there are no one East German markings as seen on other VoPo lugers seen on the Internet.
I want to post all pictures I made, so that you could get data's about the magazine and so complete your listing, and also hoping someone could help me to identify this handgun or, why not, tell me something about the History of that gun?
I bought also the matching holster, with take down tool, but should now happy to buy a second magazine matching my gun.

Could you explain me how to process efficiently?

John D. · 02-12-2013, 08:21 AM

Hi my friend - and WELCOME!

First - let me move your post, so others will see it and begin to assist you with your detailed questions about your Luger.

Also, from your e-mail this morning, I do not see any album you created? If you have a moment, can you try to upload them again - you should be able to do that from this link:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?do=addalbum

Again - from the USA to Belgium - welcome!

John D.

Curly1 · 02-12-2013, 08:23 AM

Welcome to the forum.

wlyon · 02-12-2013, 11:08 AM

As soon as you can post some pictures I am sure you will get some help. Welcome to the Forum. Bill

Jean-Pierre · 02-22-2013, 08:50 PM

I wish you all a very nice day.

I have finished to upload the pictures of my gun and hope to get information's about this weapon. I mainly want to know if this Luger is realy a Vopo Luger.
As previously mentionned, this gun don't show any East German marking as seen on other Vopo Lugers, may be only one, but very difficult to identify as an East German acceptance marking, just above the side plate ( see picture 6044 : on the right of the serial number).
The only difference with an original Mauser Luger is the base of the magazine and the grips. For the rest, if I put back original wooden grips and another magazine, this Vopo Luger could easily be modified into a real and perfect German Luger.
Another strange thing is the serial number stamped on the front of the gun, between the barrel and the trigger guard (see picture 5994_1) : there is no additional suffix letter code.
Someone told me it is because the gun has been manufactured among the last 2000 guns by Mauser, thruth or joke I don't know.
If this gun has been put in service into the Volks Polizei units, it is strange not finding the code of the city and unit where it is supposed to be given as side arm of a policeman?

I just hope I don't have been abused with and bought a "puzzeled" gun made from spare parts assembled into a gun.
Last but not least, I bought this gun in Belgium for the amount of 840 € ( 1100 $), but no idea if it was a good price or not.
Bluing seems original and not modified by East Germany.

I should extremely happy to get your coments on this gun.

Jean-Pierre · 02-22-2013, 08:55 PM

Hi Bill and John, I probably made a mistake attempting to answer to you. The public album is now uploaded and hope to get coments from Luger specialists about this gun.
Have a nice day ; now it is 03 AM here and I go back to the sleeping room...!

Edward Tinker · 02-22-2013, 08:56 PM

Jean, very nice to have you on the forum. I lived in the Netherlands for 7 years, and visited much of Belgium many times, wonderful country.

Some Vopo's are barely messed with and you would not know it was a vopo gun at all. Of course, it could have been sold as a vopo and not have been one

Yours has vopo grips and the barrel I am pretty sure is a replacement. not sure about the marking above the serial number and before the marking of 9mm

Ed

padredan · 02-22-2013, 10:24 PM

welcome

mrerick · 02-23-2013, 11:16 AM

Hi,

Welcome to the forum!

Your Luger does look like an Eastern Block captured pistol to me. The small starburst symbol after the 4 numeric digits on the left front of the receiver and the mark after "9mm Para" on the bottom of the barrel look like they could be their marks.

The plastic grips are definitely VoPo.

The mark on the receiver's locking lug "Kett" or something similar is probably an importer mark. It looks like it was proofed in your country in 1986.

Every 270,000 Lugers made by Mauser, they cycled from a block of 10,000 "z" suffix pistols, to a block of No Suffix "ns" pistols to a block of "a" suffix pistols.

The witness mark staking the barrel to the receiver looks to me like it has never been altered, so it's possible that the barrel is original.

The magazine is a WW-II vintage Haenel Schmeisser machined magazine (very high quality) that has had the base ground down and renumbered in the style of police magazines. It was originally WaffenAmt proofed by the Germans.

The trigger plate does look like it is a later replacement, numbered with dies that don't look like Mauser's.

So, Enjoy this very nice Luger...

Marc

Vlim · 02-23-2013, 11:20 AM

Kett is/was a German gun dealer (Kettner), who handled a lot of sales on former DDR pistols in the 1980s and 1990s. Nice VoPo with VoPo-holster. The pistol was reproofed in Germany in 1986, so that corresponds with the Kettner connection.

Levi 42 · 02-23-2013, 04:48 PM

Jean-Pierre I am not a Luger expert so I don't know enough to be able to tell if your barrel or other parts were replaced BUT I would have gladly given $1100.00 American for that rig!

I'd say you did well. Very nice.

Levi

sheepherder · 12-30-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Kett is/was a German gun dealer (Kettner), who handled a lot of sales on former DDR pistols in the 1980s and 1990s. Nice VoPo with VoPo-holster. The pistol was reproofed in Germany in 1986, so that corresponds with the Kettner connection.

Gerben -

I missed this on the first time around...

Exactly what is a 'Gewehrpass' and how/why was it used/issued???

Do/did you have a connection to Herr Kettner???

Vlim · 12-30-2013, 03:29 PM

Basically it's just a warranty card

sheepherder · 07-26-2014, 02:42 PM

Jean-Pierre's VoPo Luger appeared in the Random Album Pics today. He hadn't compiled his album when last I posted, now I see in one of his pics (of which there is no shortage) that the brown Bakelite grips (or are they plastic?) have a marbled (or mottled, choose one) appearance...

The only WW II era brown grips I have (except wood) are on my VoPo P-38 and don't have this 'marbled' appearance...

Is this common??? On VoPo Luger grips???

John Sabato · 07-28-2014, 09:59 AM

It is not uncommon... I have seen both solid color and the mottled appearance grips on VOPO pistols...

02-04-2013, 01:51 PM	#1
Jean-Pierre User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Charleroi (Belgium) Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	New Member Hi, I'm just logging in for the first time, so be indulgent with a beginner !!!!!! I have bought in last december a Byf 41 Luger sold to me as a VoPo (Volks Polizei) Luger. What is strange to me is that there are no one East German markings as seen on other VoPo lugers seen on the Internet. I want to post all pictures I made, so that you could get data's about the magazine and so complete your listing, and also hoping someone could help me to identify this handgun or, why not, tell me something about the History of that gun? I bought also the matching holster, with take down tool, but should now happy to buy a second magazine matching my gun. Could you explain me how to process efficiently?

02-12-2013, 08:23 AM	#3
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,234 Thanks: 116 Thanked 706 Times in 368 Posts	Welcome to the forum. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

02-12-2013, 11:08 AM	#4
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,625 Thanks: 3,165 Thanked 2,544 Times in 949 Posts	As soon as you can post some pictures I am sure you will get some help. Welcome to the Forum. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-22-2013, 08:50 PM	#5
Jean-Pierre User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Charleroi (Belgium) Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	My Vopo Luger I wish you all a very nice day. I have finished to upload the pictures of my gun and hope to get information's about this weapon. I mainly want to know if this Luger is realy a Vopo Luger. As previously mentionned, this gun don't show any East German marking as seen on other Vopo Lugers, may be only one, but very difficult to identify as an East German acceptance marking, just above the side plate ( see picture 6044 : on the right of the serial number). The only difference with an original Mauser Luger is the base of the magazine and the grips. For the rest, if I put back original wooden grips and another magazine, this Vopo Luger could easily be modified into a real and perfect German Luger. Another strange thing is the serial number stamped on the front of the gun, between the barrel and the trigger guard (see picture 5994_1) : there is no additional suffix letter code. Someone told me it is because the gun has been manufactured among the last 2000 guns by Mauser, thruth or joke I don't know. If this gun has been put in service into the Volks Polizei units, it is strange not finding the code of the city and unit where it is supposed to be given as side arm of a policeman? I just hope I don't have been abused with and bought a "puzzeled" gun made from spare parts assembled into a gun. Last but not least, I bought this gun in Belgium for the amount of 840 € ( 1100 $), but no idea if it was a good price or not. Bluing seems original and not modified by East Germany. I should extremely happy to get your coments on this gun.

02-22-2013, 08:56 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	Jean, very nice to have you on the forum. I lived in the Netherlands for 7 years, and visited much of Belgium many times, wonderful country. Some Vopo's are barely messed with and you would not know it was a vopo gun at all. Of course, it could have been sold as a vopo and not have been one Yours has vopo grips and the barrel I am pretty sure is a replacement. not sure about the marking above the serial number and before the marking of 9mm Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-12-2013, 08:21 AM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 514 Times in 128 Posts	Hi my friend - and WELCOME! First - let me move your post, so others will see it and begin to assist you with your detailed questions about your Luger. Also, from your e-mail this morning, I do not see any album you created? If you have a moment, can you try to upload them again - you should be able to do that from this link: http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?do=addalbum Again - from the USA to Belgium - welcome! John D.

02-22-2013, 08:55 PM	#6
Jean-Pierre User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Charleroi (Belgium) Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Hi Bill and John, I probably made a mistake attempting to answer to you. The public album is now uploaded and hope to get coments from Luger specialists about this gun. Have a nice day ; now it is 03 AM here and I go back to the sleeping room...!

02-22-2013, 10:24 PM	#8
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	welcome __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

02-23-2013, 11:16 AM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Hi, Welcome to the forum! Your Luger does look like an Eastern Block captured pistol to me. The small starburst symbol after the 4 numeric digits on the left front of the receiver and the mark after "9mm Para" on the bottom of the barrel look like they could be their marks. The plastic grips are definitely VoPo. The mark on the receiver's locking lug "Kett" or something similar is probably an importer mark. It looks like it was proofed in your country in 1986. Every 270,000 Lugers made by Mauser, they cycled from a block of 10,000 "z" suffix pistols, to a block of No Suffix "ns" pistols to a block of "a" suffix pistols. The witness mark staking the barrel to the receiver looks to me like it has never been altered, so it's possible that the barrel is original. The magazine is a WW-II vintage Haenel Schmeisser machined magazine (very high quality) that has had the base ground down and renumbered in the style of police magazines. It was originally WaffenAmt proofed by the Germans. The trigger plate does look like it is a later replacement, numbered with dies that don't look like Mauser's. So, Enjoy this very nice Luger... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-23-2013, 11:20 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Kett is/was a German gun dealer (Kettner), who handled a lot of sales on former DDR pistols in the 1980s and 1990s. Nice VoPo with VoPo-holster. The pistol was reproofed in Germany in 1986, so that corresponds with the Kettner connection. Attached Thumbnails

02-23-2013, 04:48 PM	#11
Levi 42 User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Western PA Posts: 49 Thanks: 4 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Jean-Pierre I am not a Luger expert so I don't know enough to be able to tell if your barrel or other parts were replaced BUT I would have gladly given $1100.00 American for that rig! I'd say you did well. Very nice. Levi

12-30-2013, 03:29 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Basically it's just a warranty card

07-26-2014, 02:42 PM	#14
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	Jean-Pierre's VoPo Luger appeared in the Random Album Pics today. He hadn't compiled his album when last I posted, now I see in one of his pics (of which there is no shortage) that the brown Bakelite grips (or are they plastic?) have a marbled (or mottled, choose one) appearance... The only WW II era brown grips I have (except wood) are on my VoPo P-38 and don't have this 'marbled' appearance... Is this common??? On VoPo Luger grips??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-28-2014, 09:59 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	It is not uncommon... I have seen both solid color and the mottled appearance grips on VOPO pistols... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*