1938 Russian Tokarev TT33

[Eugen]

I got me a 1938 Russian Tokarev TT33.

If you followed my other recent post in this section, you know that I encountered an opportunity to buy two vintage guns from a local acquaintance. I passed on a minty Beretta due to its orphaned, odd ball Glisenti caliber, but became enthralled with a 1938 Tokarev, apparently a 1903 Browning clone that Fidor Tokarev copied.

It was clearly one of those scenarios that I am sure each of you has experienced. Once I got the gun in my hand I didn’t want to let it go.

The exterior is a little rough. The lanyard loop is missing. If it has 10% of the original bluing remaining I would be surprised. Mechanically the action and the bore are good, according to two friends that know a lot more than I do about vintage guns. It is an apparent GI bring back with no import marks. I did not cycle a snap cap since this noob collector didn’t have any 3,62x30 cartridges laying around. But, the action seemed tight and smooth. I gave $200 for it.

The Commie army 1938 pistol seemed like a cool addition to my 1939 and 1942 military Lugers in my collection. Who knows maybe the two guys holding these weapons during WWII were shooting at each other. I mean they were adversaries, right? Germans vs Russians. Yes, I know I have a wild imagination. LOL

What are your thoughts on my now third vintage WWII pistol acquisition?

[alanint]

I think $200 for an original, Russian wartime Toke, even in this condition, is a steal. Very rugged guns. The lanyard loop can be easily replaced.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Eugen

I did not cycle a snap cap since this noob collector didn’t have any 3,62x30 cartridges laying around.

I don't either. One could probably be made up out of a brass ball point pen refill.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by alanint

I think $200 for an original, Russian wartime Toke, even in this condition, is a steal. Very rugged guns. The lanyard loop can be easily replaced.

Yes, I thought I did ok on the price. I checked a 2016 Blue Book that I just bought. I will feel more confident once I get some ammo and successfully fire it. I forgot to mention that when I broke it down to inspect and clean it last night, I was happy to see that it is numbers matching (except the mag) as far as I can tell.

I don't know any local smiths but I am glad to hear that replacing the lanyard loop is not a problem. Can most smiths do that work? I wonder if G.T. would do that kind of work on non-Lugers.

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I don't either. One could probably be made up out of a brass ball point pen refill.

I found some snap caps on Amazon that I have ordered. By the way, I typed the size wrong. The size is 7,62x25.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by alanint

I think $200 for an original, Russian wartime Toke, even in this condition, is a steal. Very rugged guns. The lanyard loop can be easily replaced.

I will second that comment. It is worth every penny of what you paid and more...IMHO.

A lanyard loop won't be impossible to find if it is important to you. I hate lanyards so I wouldn't bother replacing it, or to have it blued... I think it looks great as-is...

Congrats on the acquisition.

[Olle]

$200 is a steal for an original TT-33, and I would say that it could bring $700-$800 on Gunbroker. They are usually in pretty rough condition, and your's is not much worse than what you usually see. Most of them have a lot of finish wear, and many of them seem to be worn entirely down to the steel. I guess the Russians didn't take good care of their guns, it's just as difficult to find a nice, original Nagant revolver.

[Mac Cat]

It's a pretty good design, I think. I have a 1969 Chinese made bring back (Vietnam) that has mismatched parts (Body/Slide), and it has been one of the most reliable semi-auto's I have ever used. It never misfired or jammed. But, it has no safety, so be careful with it.

This one looks like it's Russian - I've read they are the most sought after models.

[DonVoigt]

Eugen,
I think you misunderstood the comment, the lanyard loop will not be "no problem"; but it can be made if you must have it. I think chances of finding one are pretty slim.

Not having a TT33, I can only guess the lanyard loop is held in by a pin or bradded on the inside.
You can figure it out.

Depending on the diameter needed: welding rod, coat hanger, bailing wire, etc may work to make a replacement loop, or the appropriate size nail- just bend them around a mandrel and go to it.

Some parts of 'smithing are similar to blacksmithing, use a big hammer; and don't forget that one about "necessity and invention".

[kurusu]

Eugen,

The T33 is not really a clone of anything. Even though it has indeed some of the external looks of the 1903 Browning, internally it's a locked breech more similar to the 1911. It even has the link in the barrel. On the other hand the trigger group contained in a cartridge has nothing to do with JMB designs,

[sheepherder]

Many Russian weapons turned up in Viet Nam - My recruiter brought back a Russian rifle. Cyrillic characters, 7.62 x 39.

There seems to be a common condition of captured/confiscated weapons brought back from Afghanistan too - the almost total lack of a finish. Maybe Ed can comment on that. I've seen three souvenir handguns brought back and they are all old [WW II era] and have maybe 1 - 2% of bluing left on them. All different makes.

And no cleaning kits.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Not having a TT33, I can only guess the lanyard loop is held in by a pin or bradded on the inside.
You can figure it out.

I haven't looked at my TT-33s, but loops of this type are usually staked from the back. You turn the ends to a smaller diameter than the wire to create a shoulder, bend it to the correct shape, tap it in place and stake it from the back. You can also use red Loctite to hold it in place, it's entirely sufficient as long as you don't tie a lanyard to it and swing the gun around.

I have made quite a few loops of this kind, and the problems I usually run into are usually 1: Finding the correct diameter wire and 2: Bending it so the legs are exactly the same length. It may take a few attempts, but it's more tedious than difficult.

[kurusu]

I forgot to say this Eugen. Nice acquisition.

[sheepherder]

I believe Olle has a thread here [somewhere] about making a lanyard loop for a P38. That used a rectangular loop and required a bending block as well as stepped rod for the loop.

My Yugoslav M57/Zastava has a half-round lanyard loop, staked inside and looks like it is stepped too. Approx 2.5mm at the loop, you should be able to tell if your holes are smaller (means the rod is stepped).

The M57 is a similar copy of the TT33 with one extra round capacity & longer grip frame/grips/magazine. The M57 also has a captive recoil spring, much appreciated by disassemblers...

If you shoot it and you say you don't reload, then you should be able to sell the spent cartridges here as the C96 Mauser uses the same physical cartridge case...but with less powder...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I believe Olle has a thread here [somewhere] about making a lanyard loop for a P38. That used a rectangular loop and required a bending block as well as stepped rod for the loop.

I totally forgot about that.... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=29453

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by Olle

I totally forgot about that.... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=29453

Golly, Olle! I read that thread about your P.38 lanyard ring quest and your work. There are some impressive machinists and fabricators on this forum. Nice job!

As for me, I'm a hospital executive. I can admire that work, but I have no experience or skills in that department. I wear a suit with a bowtie and sit behind a desk at work. Sure I can clean a gun better than OR sterilizers can clean surgery equipment, but make a lanyard ring for a Tokarev? No dice.

What are my chances that that mentioned $4.00 P.38 lanyard ring at Numrich will fit my Tokarev? Because that may be my only chance. LOL

Perhaps I should heed John's advice and be happy that the ring is gone.

BTW, thanks to all for your informative comments.

[John Sabato]

Hey Olle,


I just reread your lanyard loop fabrication thread and I had an idea you can add for the forming process.

Your forming die idea was a great one, but IF I had to implement a copy of your work I think I would fabricate the dies to fit in a standard reloading press to supply the "oompf" for forming.

I would make the dies so that when you levered the reloading press, the completed staple (lanyard loop) would be pushed out of the top of the die. With that kind of setup you can cut a bunch or rods to the appropriate length, size the ends and easily punch out a pile of lanyard loops in a very short time. Just sayin'

As far as holding them into the pistol frame, a method you could use would be to make the ends JUST SLIGHTLY oversize of the hole size by a couple of ten thousandths, and then put the newly formed link in the freezer and heat the hole for ten or twenty seconds with a propane torch. While the holes are still hot ( and hence enlarged from the heat) , you can slide the link quickly into place, and when the gun cools (and the holes contract) you will have a very strong press fit. VIOLA!

[Olle]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Hey Olle,


I just reread your lanyard loop fabrication thread and I had an idea you can add for the forming process.

Your forming die idea was a great one, but IF I had to implement a copy of your work I think I would fabricate the dies to fit in a standard reloading press to supply the "oompf" for forming.

I would make the dies so that when you levered the reloading press, the completed staple (lanyard loop) would be pushed out of the top of the die. With that kind of setup you can cut a bunch or rods to the appropriate length, size the ends and easily punch out a pile of lanyard loops in a very short time. Just sayin'

As far as holding them into the pistol frame, a method you could use would be to make the ends JUST SLIGHTLY oversize of the hole size by a couple of ten thousandths, and then put the newly formed link in the freezer and heat the hole for ten or twenty seconds with a propane torch. While the holes are still hot ( and hence enlarged from the heat) , you can slide the link quickly into place, and when the gun cools (and the holes contract) you will have a very strong press fit. VIOLA!

John,

That would be a great way to do it. I had a similar idea (kinda upside down compared with yours) where I would use use my arbor press instead. You put the female die at the bottom with a spacer underneath, put the male die on the arbor, load it from the top and just punch them through.

The tool I used was kinda experimental, and if I had to do it again I would make it from a more substantial piece of steel. I didn't have a clue when I started so it kinda evolved from pieces of scrap steel and a lot of head scratching. The geometry of the tool needed several tweaks before it worked, but now when I have that figured out I could probably build a better tool pretty quickly.

The trickiest part was to get the legs exactly parallel and the ends at the exact distance from each other. They fit pretty tightly in the holes, so the ends need to be within a few thousands of an inch to both hit the holes. It's so tight already that the loop will bind if it doesn't go in exactly square. Adding a press fit or shrink fit to that equation would probably be very difficult.

[sheepherder]

Olle, I saved your thread because it was so detailed and such an elaborate jig. I can't make anything that small and have it turn out useful.

The only suggestion to those loops I can make is while they are still straight, drill a shallow hole in each end so that they can be staked inside the gripframe easier. If you're familiar with the slide stop plunger tube on M1911 frames, it doesn't take much of a stake to hold it but it's much easier with a hole in the lanyard loop to spread in the frame hole.

[Douglas Jr.]

TT33 is a sturdy and reliable project.
Tough gun for a tough war.
And I can fully understand your imagination - I do the same with my guns, wonderig where they were long time ago.
Congratulations and thanks for showing!