Toggle link question?

skeeter4206 · 01-21-2013, 11:29 AM

I have been curious about how much difference, if any, are the dimensons between the 1900 lugers and the later lugers. I have been just looking at mine and its obvious the difference with the front portion of the toggle that holds the fireing pin. But what about the middle link and rear link. I took some dial calipers and measured them both and they appeared to be very close in size. But my measureing aint exactly the best, so I figured Id ask the question and see what the real answer is.

ithacaartist · 01-22-2013, 10:01 AM

Glenn,

Generally, the 1900's would be "old model"--with a frame that is around 1/8" longer than a P.08. I think the difference is made up in the breech block. The change from long frame to "new model" happened--I think-- around 1906, but you better look it up to be certain. I have two 1906 AEs, one is long frame, the other short.

skeeter4206 · 01-22-2013, 12:00 PM

I see were there are some blueprint disc on one of these threads for sale. I wonder if it has deminsions for both styles. I have a 1900 AE and the breechblock is very obvious difference between my 1917. I was shooting my 1917 the other day and when I was cleaning I was just checking it out and seeing if the rear part of the toggle could be interchanglable if one desired. My 1900 resr link has some small indications in it and I know that shooting it anymore with it in wouldnt be wise.

John Sabato · 01-22-2013, 12:56 PM

The Bluepirnt CD contains only the military blueprints for the P.08 model with the 4 inch barrel. I do not have the blueprints for the long frame model, but do believe as stated previously in this thread that difference is made up in the breechblock... the rear toggle of both types is likely the same length.

For those interested in obtaining a copy of the P.08 blueprints... see the "sticky" thread at the top of the "for Sale" forum... (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=11286) Still only $25.00 USD. And now available immediately by download instead of by mail... a real interesting "read" for those who admire Luger engineering...

skeeter4206 · 01-22-2013, 03:34 PM

Thank you Mr. Sabato. I know measuring it physically it didnt seem to have much difference in size down to the 0.005" plus or minus on my dimensions between the two. But I was just curious what others thought as well.

Ron Wood · 01-22-2013, 05:12 PM

The difference between a "long frame" and a "short frame" is all in front of the takedown lever. From there on back they are close enough to dimensionally the same that parts are just about interchangeable (perhaps with a little fiddleing). I married up a 1900 rear toggle link with a 1906 forward toggle link and breechblock and installed them in a 1900 receiver. I had to open up the extractor notch in the receiver and barrel to accept the new model extractor, but everything else went together well.

Lugerdoc · 01-23-2013, 10:57 AM

As Ron stated above, the overall toggle dimentions are about the same. The dimentional difference between long & short frame is in the receiver (barrel extention), which is an 1/8" longer in the theaded area. THe M1900 mid toggle link may look similar to a later DWM PO8 link, but the angle of the cocking arm is different and thicker, so that only the flat surface of the M1900 FP will work with it. A standard round PO8 FP will not pass it. Finally, to use a standard rear toggle link in a M1900, your will have to use the shorter M1900 "S" shaped connecting (to the flat main spring) link, or the toggle will not open fully. TH

skeeter4206 · 01-24-2013, 05:29 PM

So I'd say if I was to switch any part of the toggle out just so I could shoot the 1900, I'd better stick with a 1900 style toggle. I goota asve some money on that one. I love shooting the old style 1900's luger I have and I will not shoot it again after finding the small linear indications in the rear toggle. But eventually I do want to change it out and get it shooting again.

Thanks for ya'lls opinion on the dimensions on these parts. I was trying to think out the box and use some parts that are available local really cheap from some of the later version lugers.

01-21-2013, 11:29 AM	#1
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Toggle link question? I have been curious about how much difference, if any, are the dimensons between the 1900 lugers and the later lugers. I have been just looking at mine and its obvious the difference with the front portion of the toggle that holds the fireing pin. But what about the middle link and rear link. I took some dial calipers and measured them both and they appeared to be very close in size. But my measureing aint exactly the best, so I figured Id ask the question and see what the real answer is.

01-22-2013, 10:01 AM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Glenn, Generally, the 1900's would be "old model"--with a frame that is around 1/8" longer than a P.08. I think the difference is made up in the breech block. The change from long frame to "new model" happened--I think-- around 1906, but you better look it up to be certain. I have two 1906 AEs, one is long frame, the other short. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

01-22-2013, 12:56 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The Bluepirnt CD contains only the military blueprints for the P.08 model with the 4 inch barrel. I do not have the blueprints for the long frame model, but do believe as stated previously in this thread that difference is made up in the breechblock... the rear toggle of both types is likely the same length. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the P.08 blueprints... see the "sticky" thread at the top of the "for Sale" forum... (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=11286) Still only $25.00 USD. And now available immediately by download instead of by mail... a real interesting "read" for those who admire Luger engineering... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-22-2013, 05:12 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The difference between a "long frame" and a "short frame" is all in front of the takedown lever. From there on back they are close enough to dimensionally the same that parts are just about interchangeable (perhaps with a little fiddleing). I married up a 1900 rear toggle link with a 1906 forward toggle link and breechblock and installed them in a 1900 receiver. I had to open up the extractor notch in the receiver and barrel to accept the new model extractor, but everything else went together well. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-23-2013, 10:57 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	As Ron stated above, the overall toggle dimentions are about the same. The dimentional difference between long & short frame is in the receiver (barrel extention), which is an 1/8" longer in the theaded area. THe M1900 mid toggle link may look similar to a later DWM PO8 link, but the angle of the cocking arm is different and thicker, so that only the flat surface of the M1900 FP will work with it. A standard round PO8 FP will not pass it. Finally, to use a standard rear toggle link in a M1900, your will have to use the shorter M1900 "S" shaped connecting (to the flat main spring) link, or the toggle will not open fully. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-22-2013, 12:00 PM	#3
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I see were there are some blueprint disc on one of these threads for sale. I wonder if it has deminsions for both styles. I have a 1900 AE and the breechblock is very obvious difference between my 1917. I was shooting my 1917 the other day and when I was cleaning I was just checking it out and seeing if the rear part of the toggle could be interchanglable if one desired. My 1900 resr link has some small indications in it and I know that shooting it anymore with it in wouldnt be wise.

01-22-2013, 03:34 PM	#5
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Thank you Mr. Sabato. I know measuring it physically it didnt seem to have much difference in size down to the 0.005" plus or minus on my dimensions between the two. But I was just curious what others thought as well.

01-24-2013, 05:29 PM	#8
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	So I'd say if I was to switch any part of the toggle out just so I could shoot the 1900, I'd better stick with a 1900 style toggle. I goota asve some money on that one. I love shooting the old style 1900's luger I have and I will not shoot it again after finding the small linear indications in the rear toggle. But eventually I do want to change it out and get it shooting again. Thanks for ya'lls opinion on the dimensions on these parts. I was trying to think out the box and use some parts that are available local really cheap from some of the later version lugers.