1906 French marked commercial

cirelaw · 02-25-2013, 04:00 PM

In 2006 I purchased this 1906 French contact. Since then I haven't seen another. A supposed 1903 surfaced but there were questions. Charles Kenyan one page 106 wrote that only 2 were reported back in 1969 over 40 years ago! Has any been reported since his publication? I'm looking for any thing written on the topic or suggestions! Thank You All! ~ Eric

Dwight Gruber · 02-25-2013, 04:54 PM

Eric,

There are 24 reports of New Model Parabellums marked "Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne" in the Commercial database. Of these:

5 are reported with toe numbers, and can be considered authentic.

3 are reported as having no toe number, and can be considered not authentic.

4 are reported which can be confirmed as fake.

11 do not report the presence or absence of a toe number, and so their authenticty cannot be determined from the data.

There are reports of 8 Old Model French transitional Parabellus in the database. Of these:

6 reports cannot be determined as authentic or not from the data reported. One is reported as 9mm.

2 are reported as having a "Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne" inscription on the barrel. These are fake. One of them is reported in October 2010 as no longer having the barrel inscription.

--Dwight

cirelaw · 02-25-2013, 05:34 PM

Thank You Dwight, Your post helped but what are 'toe numbers' Heres a look at the base underside on the barrel with some proofs. Were these correct with this luger? TKS

cirelaw · 02-26-2013, 01:09 PM

Tks

cirelaw · 02-26-2013, 01:28 PM

Thank You!

alanint · 02-26-2013, 02:07 PM

I would assume that "toe" would be that area at the very entrance to the magazine well, were some Lugers have stamps.

cirelaw · 02-26-2013, 02:47 PM

I'll have to check when we unpack next week. Moving suggs!

cirelaw · 02-26-2013, 03:38 PM

I found this entry in Dwights fantastic work!

Sergio Natali · 02-28-2013, 07:57 AM

extremely interesting, in this forum there is always a lot lo learn.

cirelaw · 02-28-2013, 09:16 AM

Every luger has its own life and history!

Ben M. · 03-05-2013, 03:36 PM

here is a photo copy from an old Gazette des Arms magazine which shows the toe-numbering mentioned by member dwight.

cirelaw · 03-05-2013, 03:41 PM

Thank You! Mine does not! Do you know what significare the four digits have?? Is it a serial number or inspection code? I can't imagine the lack of four previously unknown tail numbers amount to a definitave fake! Of Note, a 1906 sold last year #47695 on Rock Island Arsenal for an undislosed amount!

Dwight Gruber · 03-05-2013, 07:52 PM

The toe number is an inventory number applied by Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne

--Dwight

02-25-2013, 04:00 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	1906 French marked commercial In 2006 I purchased this 1906 French contact. Since then I haven't seen another. A supposed 1903 surfaced but there were questions. Charles Kenyan one page 106 wrote that only 2 were reported back in 1969 over 40 years ago! Has any been reported since his publication? I'm looking for any thing written on the topic or suggestions! Thank You All! ~ Eric Attached Thumbnails

02-25-2013, 05:34 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You Dwight, Your post helped but what are 'toe numbers' Heres a look at the base underside on the barrel with some proofs. Were these correct with this luger? TKS Attached Thumbnails

02-26-2013, 01:28 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A clearer view! Thank You! Attached Thumbnails

02-26-2013, 03:38 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I found this entry in Dwights fantastic work! Attached Thumbnails

03-05-2013, 03:36 PM	#11
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	here is a photo copy from an old Gazette des Arms magazine which shows the toe-numbering mentioned by member dwight. Last edited by Ben M.; 11-04-2014 at 12:30 PM.

02-25-2013, 04:54 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Eric, There are 24 reports of New Model Parabellums marked "Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne" in the Commercial database. Of these: 5 are reported with toe numbers, and can be considered authentic. 3 are reported as having no toe number, and can be considered not authentic. 4 are reported which can be confirmed as fake. 11 do not report the presence or absence of a toe number, and so their authenticty cannot be determined from the data. There are reports of 8 Old Model French transitional Parabellus in the database. Of these: 6 reports cannot be determined as authentic or not from the data reported. One is reported as 9mm. 2 are reported as having a "Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne" inscription on the barrel. These are fake. One of them is reported in October 2010 as no longer having the barrel inscription. --Dwight

02-26-2013, 01:09 PM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Is this the area you are reffering to? Tks Attached Images

02-26-2013, 02:07 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I would assume that "toe" would be that area at the very entrance to the magazine well, were some Lugers have stamps.

02-26-2013, 02:47 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I'll have to check when we unpack next week. Moving suggs!

02-28-2013, 07:57 AM	#9
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	extremely interesting, in this forum there is always a lot lo learn.

02-28-2013, 09:16 AM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Every luger has its own life and history!

03-05-2013, 03:41 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You! Mine does not! Do you know what significare the four digits have?? Is it a serial number or inspection code? I can't imagine the lack of four previously unknown tail numbers amount to a definitave fake! Of Note, a 1906 sold last year #47695 on Rock Island Arsenal for an undislosed amount!

03-05-2013, 07:52 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	The toe number is an inventory number applied by Manufacture Francais des Armes et Cycles de St. Etienne --Dwight