Bolt Failure at Extractor 1937 S/42

sdmark777 · 05-10-2018, 03:15 AM

I have a well used WWII, S/42, 1937, 9mm Mauser Luger. This is all matching and original. Both sides of the trigger are dented in slightly. But the main issue with this Luger is a failure at the top of the bolt where metal has sheared away on both sides of the extractor. The extractor is in perfect shape and original to this Luger. There are what I would describe as wings on the left and right sides of the extractor, not visible without disassembly. These wings limit how far up the extractor will rise. It appears these wings pushed up against the bolt and sheared off small pieces on each side. This was the condition this Luger was found in many years ago.This Luger shoots fine, and is the only one of my Lugers I will shoot. I am looking for the following info from you folks.

1. How common is this bolt failure? This is the only one I have seen like this.
2. What do you all think the cause is? Poor metallurgy? Poor hardening? Excessive pressure from hot rounds? Milling dimensions too tight on the extractor cut out? Or something else?
3. If you have seen this in other Lugers, I am curious as to which ones? ie just WWII?, just Mauser?, WWI?, Commercials?
4. Also curious about dents on back of trigger on both sides. Anyone seen that kind of damage. Is it from dropping the trigger when disassembled?

Thanks for your thoughts and information. Mark

sdmark777 · 05-10-2018, 03:29 AM

If you look at the last pic, you can see the "wing" I am referring to, on the left side of the the extractor, at the bottom of the hole, where steel used to be.

DonVoigt · 05-10-2018, 08:06 AM

1. How common is this bolt failure? This is the only one I have seen like this.
NOT COMMON, i'VE SEEN PICTS OF SEVERAL AND HAVE ONE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT(CAME IN A LOT OF USED PARTS"
COULD EVEN BE THAT SOMEONE TRIED TO ASSEMBLE WRONG AND USED A HAMMER TO FORCE THE EXTRACTOR DOWN INTO ITS SLOT, INSTEAD OF PUTTING IT IN FROM THE FRONT.

2. What do you all think the cause is? Poor metallurgy? Poor hardening? Excessive pressure from
hot rounds? Milling dimensions too tight on the extractor cut out? Or something else?
LIKELY WEAR FROM LOTS OF USE, BUT COULD BE ANY OF THE THINGS YOU MENTION.

3. If you have seen this in other Lugers, I am curious as to which ones? ie just WWII?, just Mauser?, WWI?, Commercials?
YES, OTHERS. USUALLY THE MAKER IS NOT SHOWN, SOMETIMES THE PIECE STILL WORKS- IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A FAILURE THAT WILL STOP THE FUNCTION OF THE LUGER.

4. Also curious about dents on back of trigger on both sides. Anyone seen that kind of damage. Is it from dropping the trigger when disassembled?
IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DENT THE BACK OF THE TRIGGER BY DROPPING IT, IMO. MAYBE SOMEONE PRIED THE BACK TRYING TO REMOVE IT??

And a question for you-
Why are your pictures "greyed out"?

sheepherder · 05-10-2018, 09:14 AM

I've seen several like this, and owned one. Most likely caused by too hot a cartridge load.

alanint · 05-10-2018, 11:48 AM

Agree with the hot cartridge hypothesis.

Germany produced hot 9mm ammunition for use in machine pistols. Pistols that fire these rounds will eventually fail, as described here.

sdmark777 · 05-10-2018, 12:15 PM

Ok, thanks for all your input. Why are the pics greyed out? These are old digital pics from a flatbed scanner. I need to still take some real photos of this one someday. Mark

LU1900 · 05-10-2018, 08:27 PM

I use an extractor new manufacture for firing and cut off the part seen in the pic so no broken bolt :
/

sdmark777 · 05-10-2018, 08:38 PM

Good idea LU1900. I guess I do not need to do that on mine

DonVoigt · 05-10-2018, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LU1900

I use an extractor new manufacture for firing and cut off the part seen in the pic so no broken bolt :
/

That is a novel way to eliminate any chance of that "problem"; also creates a "pressure relief valve" in case of a pierced primer.

gunbugs · 05-10-2018, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LU1900

I use an extractor new manufacture for firing and cut off the part seen in the pic so no broken bolt :
/

I always use a replacement extractor when I shoot any of my P-08's. Cutting the ears off had not occured to me. Good idea.

05-10-2018, 03:15 AM	#1
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 284 Thanks: 657 Thanked 665 Times in 171 Posts	Bolt Failure at Extractor 1937 S/42 I have a well used WWII, S/42, 1937, 9mm Mauser Luger. This is all matching and original. Both sides of the trigger are dented in slightly. But the main issue with this Luger is a failure at the top of the bolt where metal has sheared away on both sides of the extractor. The extractor is in perfect shape and original to this Luger. There are what I would describe as wings on the left and right sides of the extractor, not visible without disassembly. These wings limit how far up the extractor will rise. It appears these wings pushed up against the bolt and sheared off small pieces on each side. This was the condition this Luger was found in many years ago.This Luger shoots fine, and is the only one of my Lugers I will shoot. I am looking for the following info from you folks. 1. How common is this bolt failure? This is the only one I have seen like this. 2. What do you all think the cause is? Poor metallurgy? Poor hardening? Excessive pressure from hot rounds? Milling dimensions too tight on the extractor cut out? Or something else? 3. If you have seen this in other Lugers, I am curious as to which ones? ie just WWII?, just Mauser?, WWI?, Commercials? 4. Also curious about dents on back of trigger on both sides. Anyone seen that kind of damage. Is it from dropping the trigger when disassembled? Thanks for your thoughts and information. Mark Attached Thumbnails Last edited by sdmark777; 05-10-2018 at 03:16 AM. Reason: Revised wording

05-10-2018, 08:06 AM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	1. How common is this bolt failure? This is the only one I have seen like this. NOT COMMON, i'VE SEEN PICTS OF SEVERAL AND HAVE ONE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT(CAME IN A LOT OF USED PARTS" COULD EVEN BE THAT SOMEONE TRIED TO ASSEMBLE WRONG AND USED A HAMMER TO FORCE THE EXTRACTOR DOWN INTO ITS SLOT, INSTEAD OF PUTTING IT IN FROM THE FRONT. 2. What do you all think the cause is? Poor metallurgy? Poor hardening? Excessive pressure from hot rounds? Milling dimensions too tight on the extractor cut out? Or something else? LIKELY WEAR FROM LOTS OF USE, BUT COULD BE ANY OF THE THINGS YOU MENTION. 3. If you have seen this in other Lugers, I am curious as to which ones? ie just WWII?, just Mauser?, WWI?, Commercials? YES, OTHERS. USUALLY THE MAKER IS NOT SHOWN, SOMETIMES THE PIECE STILL WORKS- IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A FAILURE THAT WILL STOP THE FUNCTION OF THE LUGER. 4. Also curious about dents on back of trigger on both sides. Anyone seen that kind of damage. Is it from dropping the trigger when disassembled? IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DENT THE BACK OF THE TRIGGER BY DROPPING IT, IMO. MAYBE SOMEONE PRIED THE BACK TRYING TO REMOVE IT?? And a question for you- Why are your pictures "greyed out"? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-10-2018, 09:14 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I've seen several like this, and owned one. Most likely caused by too hot a cartridge load. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-10-2018, 08:27 PM	#7
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 902 Thanks: 35 Thanked 463 Times in 194 Posts	I use an extractor new manufacture for firing and cut off the part seen in the pic so no broken bolt : / Attached Images __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

05-10-2018, 08:38 PM	#8
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 284 Thanks: 657 Thanked 665 Times in 171 Posts	Good idea LU1900. I guess I do not need to do that on mine Last edited by sdmark777; 05-10-2018 at 09:30 PM. Reason: wrong emogie

05-10-2018, 03:29 AM	#2
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 284 Thanks: 657 Thanked 665 Times in 171 Posts	If you look at the last pic, you can see the "wing" I am referring to, on the left side of the the extractor, at the bottom of the hole, where steel used to be.

05-10-2018, 11:48 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Agree with the hot cartridge hypothesis. Germany produced hot 9mm ammunition for use in machine pistols. Pistols that fire these rounds will eventually fail, as described here.

05-10-2018, 12:15 PM	#6
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 284 Thanks: 657 Thanked 665 Times in 171 Posts	Ok, thanks for all your input. Why are the pics greyed out? These are old digital pics from a flatbed scanner. I need to still take some real photos of this one someday. Mark