Gastapo Lugers

Ray · 05-15-2001, 06:16 PM

Gentlemen:

First of all, thanks for the information regarding which commercial ammunition to use for a shooter. This morning an individual advertised a Luger for sale in the classified section of the paper. He referred to it as a Gestapo Luger.How does one determine if indeed he is correct? Such claims often leave you with the sense,once you later find out the real truth, that you should have had a cigarette directly after the purchase. Thanks !

Ray

Marvin · 05-15-2001, 06:59 PM

Ray,

Unless there is irrefutable proof that the Gestapo used a particular weapon, go ahead and get ready for the cigartette! I have heard that some "dealers" will classify the "Blackwidow" Luger as a Gestapo Luger. Before buying this weapon, have the seller provide documents to prove it is Gestapo. If they appear real, have it authenticated before passing any money. I would almost make a bet it is a standard Blackwidow Luger.

I do have a friend in Europe who is in possesion of a REAL Gestapo Luger with the agents Arrest Warrent Disc, his papers, and other docusments he had hiden away since the war. My friend received this pistol and all documents proving he was Gestapo after his friends death. My friend had known this gentleman since the late 1940s and never knew what he did in the war. The pistol is a standard Luger with NO identifying marks as to it's past history, only the real documents.

Marvin

bill m · 05-15-2001, 07:24 PM

Hi Ray,

Gastapo (thats a good one) -- anyway, there is no such thing actually. It was "coined" up by some dealer to promote sales of the byf's. They are standard military issue Lugers, whose nickname has caught on. The Gestapo had the wood grips and the SS had the black plastic was the idea, which is totally false. They are both just standard German Army issued lugers that happen to have wood or black plastic grips, that all. Marvins Gestapo Luger story is an interesting one, which would only have any merit because there are papers with it and you can trace the man and the history of the gun. Very few can ever be documented.

Thor · 05-15-2001, 07:32 PM

Let's dont forget about the Personal Luger of that Famous General DWM, (lots of those our there) Sure..his intials are on the toggle link!

Frank · 05-15-2001, 07:48 PM

Ray, bill m is absolutely correct. The Luger is a standard Military Mauser byf. Marvin's friend is a special case when it can be backed up with documentation.

05-15-2001, 07:57 PM

I KNEW that salesman was lieing; telling me the car had belonged to President Lincoln. Just in case, though, I DID buy Ford's own Mustang.

05-15-2001, 08:43 PM

Not only are Black Widows "Gestapo" pistols (not), many Black Widows didn't start out that way. Somewhere along the way a lot of byf 41/42 pistols picked up repro black plastic grips and not only became Gestapo pistols, but Black Widows as well.

Mike

Johnny Peppers · 05-15-2001, 11:23 PM

The Gestapo existed. The Black Widow didn't. The "Black Widow" was a great marketing strategy to make the Lugers with black plastic grips and unnumbered plastic bottom magazines more marketable. It worked.

Milt Keller · 05-15-2001, 11:26 PM

Good point 'ol boy!

Milt

05-16-2001, 05:09 AM

Someone on this board (I believe that it was Ted, but I'm not sure) said that Ralph Shattuck coined the term "Black Widow" with amazing success.

I always believed that anyone who does not like Black Widows actually suffers from "plastic envy" and merely resents those who can oil their guns without worrying about staining those absorbent walnut grips.

Thor · 05-16-2001, 07:02 AM

Ralph did tell me that! And you are right, you dont have to work about staining those grips with oil! I actually like the dark black aspect of those as well as a nice rust blued DWM with pretty strawing and light colored grips, just look at the Luger forum patch, he shows both of these variations. Best of both worlds! Ted

Johnny Peppers · 05-16-2001, 07:32 AM

If you are fond of man made materials on your Lugers, you would really like a pair of the old Fitz grips in the imitation staghorn pattern. You could really slather on the oil with no feelings of guilt.

05-16-2001, 08:08 AM

Imitation staghorn on a Luger? Even I have some pride.

Thor · 05-16-2001, 10:00 AM

I guess we could dream up a name for the new Stainless Steel Lugers and call them an "SS" model. None of these names have any historical background, just dreamt up "stuff"

~Thorboy~

Aaron · 05-16-2001, 10:07 AM

My Luger has General Erfurt's name engraved along with his family crown crest. Price: $35,000

Thor · 05-16-2001, 10:21 AM

Shoot...........ah shucks....all these years I thought it was KING ERFURT!! That darn crown threw me off!

Dok · 05-17-2001, 07:13 PM

it was ACTUALLY Prince Erfurt, successor to the House of Hanover... I'm really quite surprised that "Lugar" experts like you guys didn't know that.

05-15-2001, 06:16 PM	#1
Ray Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 126 Thanks: 2 Thanked 37 Times in 16 Posts	Gastapo Lugers Gentlemen: First of all, thanks for the information regarding which commercial ammunition to use for a shooter. This morning an individual advertised a Luger for sale in the classified section of the paper. He referred to it as a Gestapo Luger.How does one determine if indeed he is correct? Such claims often leave you with the sense,once you later find out the real truth, that you should have had a cigarette directly after the purchase. Thanks ! Ray

05-15-2001, 06:59 PM	#2
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gastapo Lugers Ray, Unless there is irrefutable proof that the Gestapo used a particular weapon, go ahead and get ready for the cigartette! I have heard that some "dealers" will classify the "Blackwidow" Luger as a Gestapo Luger. Before buying this weapon, have the seller provide documents to prove it is Gestapo. If they appear real, have it authenticated before passing any money. I would almost make a bet it is a standard Blackwidow Luger. I do have a friend in Europe who is in possesion of a REAL Gestapo Luger with the agents Arrest Warrent Disc, his papers, and other docusments he had hiden away since the war. My friend received this pistol and all documents proving he was Gestapo after his friends death. My friend had known this gentleman since the late 1940s and never knew what he did in the war. The pistol is a standard Luger with NO identifying marks as to it's past history, only the real documents. Marvin

05-15-2001, 07:24 PM	#3
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gastapo Lugers Hi Ray, Gastapo (thats a good one) -- anyway, there is no such thing actually. It was "coined" up by some dealer to promote sales of the byf's. They are standard military issue Lugers, whose nickname has caught on. The Gestapo had the wood grips and the SS had the black plastic was the idea, which is totally false. They are both just standard German Army issued lugers that happen to have wood or black plastic grips, that all. Marvins Gestapo Luger story is an interesting one, which would only have any merit because there are papers with it and you can trace the man and the history of the gun. Very few can ever be documented.

05-15-2001, 07:32 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Gastric Lugers Let's dont forget about the Personal Luger of that Famous General DWM, (lots of those our there) Sure..his intials are on the toggle link!

05-15-2001, 07:48 PM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Re: Gastapo Lugers Ray, bill m is absolutely correct. The Luger is a standard Military Mauser byf. Marvin's friend is a special case when it can be backed up with documentation.

05-15-2001, 07:57 PM	#6
Ad Guest Posts: n/a	He, he--General DWM I KNEW that salesman was lieing; telling me the car had belonged to President Lincoln. Just in case, though, I DID buy Ford's own Mustang.

05-15-2001, 08:43 PM	#7
MK Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gastapo Lugers Not only are Black Widows "Gestapo" pistols (not), many Black Widows didn't start out that way. Somewhere along the way a lot of byf 41/42 pistols picked up repro black plastic grips and not only became Gestapo pistols, but Black Widows as well. Mike

05-15-2001, 11:23 PM	#8
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gastapo Lugers The Gestapo existed. The Black Widow didn't. The "Black Widow" was a great marketing strategy to make the Lugers with black plastic grips and unnumbered plastic bottom magazines more marketable. It worked.

05-15-2001, 11:26 PM	#9
Milt Keller User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Gastric Lugers Good point 'ol boy! Milt

05-16-2001, 05:09 AM	#10
Mike T. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Black Widows Someone on this board (I believe that it was Ted, but I'm not sure) said that Ralph Shattuck coined the term "Black Widow" with amazing success. I always believed that anyone who does not like Black Widows actually suffers from "plastic envy" and merely resents those who can oil their guns without worrying about staining those absorbent walnut grips.

05-16-2001, 07:02 AM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Black Widows Ralph did tell me that! And you are right, you dont have to work about staining those grips with oil! I actually like the dark black aspect of those as well as a nice rust blued DWM with pretty strawing and light colored grips, just look at the Luger forum patch, he shows both of these variations. Best of both worlds! Ted

05-16-2001, 07:32 AM	#12
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Black Widows If you are fond of man made materials on your Lugers, you would really like a pair of the old Fitz grips in the imitation staghorn pattern. You could really slather on the oil with no feelings of guilt.

05-16-2001, 08:08 AM	#13
Mike T. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Black Widows Imitation staghorn on a Luger? Even I have some pride.

05-16-2001, 10:00 AM	#14
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Gastapo Lugers/SS Model I guess we could dream up a name for the new Stainless Steel Lugers and call them an "SS" model. None of these names have any historical background, just dreamt up "stuff" ~Thorboy~

05-16-2001, 10:07 AM	#15
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Don't Forget General Erfurt My Luger has General Erfurt's name engraved along with his family crown crest. Price: $35,000

05-16-2001, 10:21 AM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Don't Forget General Erfurt Shoot...........ah shucks....all these years I thought it was KING ERFURT!! That darn crown threw me off!

05-17-2001, 07:13 PM	#17
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	You're both VERY confused... it was ACTUALLY Prince Erfurt, successor to the House of Hanover... I'm really quite surprised that "Lugar" experts like you guys didn't know that.