Okay you P-08 Holster experts... Here is a rare bird...

[John Sabato]

Some German cop trying to make a quick draw rig out of a hardshell! Nope, this is a first for me! Thor

[Marvin]

John,


I will take a "stab" at this one. I think it is a commercial holster. Some of the commercial holsters had the closure stap the same as the Police type. If it was a military holster, there would be Waffenamt Stamps, and if it was Police, it would have Police stamps. Also, commercial holsters usually had the makers name on the holster.


I have never seen one with the "D" ring and the this could be original for a commercial type special order with the "D" ring or it was added at some later date. Also, from the photos, the stitching does not appear to be all white


My vote is a commercial holster and would be in the $175-200 value range.


Marvin

[Patrick]

This is the first type of Luger holster: with a leather "hinge" between the lid and the back; the belt loops are more or less straight; there is no stitching across the back below the belt loops and the magazine pouch is not part of the back. This first type was changed around 1928. Before then, various German police forces ordered their Luger holsters to their own specifications. So this manufacturer was still making holsters according to an obsolete pre-1928 pattern in 1940 - very likely for the commercial market. Patrick

[bill m]

Hi,

I think this is a totally bogus holster. It is dated 1940, but has all the characteristics of a WWI holster. A person would have to examine this one mighty closely. You could make the argument that is was reworked for the commercial market from left overs and ect., but that just doesn seem to fly to me. The D-ring is unique. The shape just doesn't look exactly right. The stitching doesn't look normal to me. Having a date on it is unusual. It is not a police holster as there is not police inspection stamps. I would think that in 1940 the pattern would have been of the WWII's, like Patrick stated. I don't think this one is correct at all.

[Marvin]

Bill,


Do you think this may be a commercial holster at all and made to an early pattern?


Marvin

[bill m]

Hi Marvin,

If the pattern was a WWII design, I would say it was a commercial holster for sure. No WaA stamp and no Police Eagle, so it has to be a commercial holster. But with this design and the date, it just doesn't seem correct to me. You would have to look at the stitching and the holster very carefully and try to determine if it is a current restoration or a totally made up holster from used parts. This is one of those things that goes against all the rules. If it is real, then it is a rare item. But the trouble with rare and one of a kind items, is that there is nothing to compare them to. A person wants it to be real so bad, that he makes up stories or talks himself into thinking that it is possible, when actually, it should not be this way at all. The stamps are all out there to do what-ever you want with a holster. Death Head holster are around, and SS stamped holsters too. I don't know if this holster is real or not, as you would have to hold it and look at it in person to decide, and then that is only your opinion. What I'm stressing here is that this is not a normal holster, which should raise questions right away. You have to have rules and guide-lines to go by, or you will accept every fake there is out there, as you can always talk yourself into thinking that it is possible to be like it is.

[John Sabato]

it brings out such great thinking and opinions that we all can learn from.


Thanks guys, you all confirmed my beliefs that this is either a fake or a very rare item. I am glad I am not the only one to have never seen a D-ring on the pull strap.


If I had to guess, I would say that the condition is just too good to be original. I think it is a reproduction with a D-ring added.


Just my $0.02


-John

The holster shown here appears to be longer than normal, perhaps for a 120mm barrel. If the holster WAS real, someone sure screwed it up with the bogus maker markings.

[SteveM]

According to the info in Walters book("Luger"), this makers name has been found on P08 and LP08 holsters dated 1915-1918. No trace of the business has been found in the registers in Wuppertal-Elberfeld or Munchen and it is assumed that trading ceased shortly after the Armistice.


SteveM

[Patrick]

Bender lists M�¼hlenfeld under "Additional Makers Stampings" on page 220. I would take this to mean that M. didn�´t have a WaA Code and was not a registered manufacturer. Neither the police nor commercial manufacturers used the WaA Code system. There was nothing to stop M.from making any type of Luger holster he desired. Patrick

[Marvin]

Patrick,


With the other postings, you may have come up with the answer. Maybe the manufaturer used the old pattern and sold them commercialy. From looking at the picture, it does not look like a fake except the "D" ring. Maybe it was added at a later date by the owner. The stitching just does not look right on the "D" ring.


Marvin

[Patrick]

Marvin, I agree. Why should anyone fake a holster that obviously was not even intended to resemble an official military or police issue. Patrick

[bill m]

Hi Patrick, Marvin, and all,

You two will have some explaining to do on this one. Please tell me why a holster manufacture would make holsters for the military or police and then change the design for a couple? A commercial holster does not have the WaA or the Police stamp, so why not just make the holster and leave the stamps off, instead of changing the whole design? A company just doesn't go and make holsters without a market for them or a contract, as this was 1940, and you are in a war. You are going to talk yourselves into making this authentic. Smiling -- Don't get burnt, as better safe than sorry.

[Hugh]

It appears to me that the stitching on the "D" ring is larger thread and white as opposed to the black thread on the rest of the holster. I would deduce from this that the "D" ring was not put on when the holster was made. As this is an early style holster stamped with a makers mark who apparantly was no longer in business in 1940, my guess is that this is one of the many holsters made in the 50's in Germany on salvaged equipment & stamped with original dies, but someone screwed up on the date stamp.

[Marvin]

Bill,


My thoughts on this is from other postings that the company was in business earlier. Maybe they were still in business during 1940 and did not have a contract for holster manufacture. Since they had previously made holsters, they may have fabricated some in 1940 for the commercial market and used the early Weimar patterns. Since this holster does not have the "P.08", Police Stamps or any Waffenamts, it must be commercial.


Since most holster manufactures were tied up with Military contracts, they may have a difficult time providing commercial holsters and this manufacturer saw an area where he could make a number of holsters for sale to the commercial market in the Greater Reich gun shops. The "D" ring is definetly an add-on at some later time in my opinion.


Now, my above thoughts are based upon this being an original holster, and only being able to see a picture, one cannot make a final determination if it is original wartime manufacture or a early post war manufacture for the troops stationed in Germany. The look, feel, taste, smell, books, and knowledge are the only way to determine if it is original.


You sure do make me think hard on this Bill, Ha, ha, ha, but again, this is a good thread and makes us all think a little about Lugers and their accessories! Do you think this is a total fake, or post war manufacture?


Marvin

[Dok]

right after the war, trying to create a "war souvenier" without even a thought about being "authentic". Close might have been what he was aiming for...