LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Swiss Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-04-2014, 12:17 AM   #1
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,900
Thanks: 1,370
Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts
Default Swiss Military Review article on the M1900

In the gallery section of the site, there are a couple of images of this article which appeared in American Machinist magazine in 1901.

This version is in higher resolution and includes a letter of reply that was submitted a few weeks later concerning the Borschardt origin of the Luger.

This PDF scanned copy is courtesy of Google.

Marc
Attached Files
File Type: pdf American_Machinist_1901_Vol24_LugerWithLtr.pdf (403.2 KB, 161 views)
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 8 members says Thank You to mrerick for your post:
Unread 12-04-2014, 10:32 AM   #2
sheepherder
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
sheepherder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,181
Thanks: 1,398
Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts
Default

Excellent addition to the archives!

...And I agree fully with Carl T. Burchardt's letter!
__________________
I like my coffee the
way I like my women...
...Cold and bitter...
sheepherder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 12:52 PM   #3
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,986
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts
Default

A well known and super document. A couple of points of trivia to go with it. The pistol shown in the article is the ultra-rare 1899 pre-production variation and I also agree with Carl T. Burchardt's letter...the very first manual for the Luger was printed in 1901 and in English...check out the nomenclature on the cover!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CIMG1224.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	96.6 KB
ID:	44231  

__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 05:22 PM   #4
Mauser 712
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Correction: It is a Swiss manual (1st edition) in French (which I have in my archive) which was also printed in 1901, just before the manual above. However, the manual you depict is the first manual printed by the DWM factory.

I am still searching for a M1906 Russian Luger manual ;-)

Albert
Mauser 712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 06:31 PM   #5
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,986
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts
Default

How do you know the French manual was printed before the English? I am curious since both are dated 1901?

Just kidding Albert. Your manual is really a jewel. There is a pretty good chance your manual was printed first, but also likely they were printed at the same time. I have the second edition of your manual printed in German in 1903... nice manual in mint condition.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

Last edited by Ron Wood; 12-04-2014 at 08:27 PM.
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 06:45 AM   #6
Mauser 712
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Thank you Sir Ron,

If I understand the information on the front cover on my first edition Swiss manual, it appears that the M1900 Swiss Luger pistol was approved by the Federal Counsel on 2 April 1901 and the manual likely printed in 'X11 1901' by a printing press in Switzerland. Since the DWM factory manual makes reference to the Swiss Regulation Pattern 1900, I am assuming that it was printed shortly after the Swiss manual, but I could be wrong. Both could have been printed at the same time even though the Swiss evaluation of the M1900 was first.

However, I do know with a very strong probability that the M1906 'Russian Luger' is really a Bulgarian Luger - even without an original military manual in my collection ;-)) That will be coming soon with depicts both the Old and New Model Bulgarian Lugers.

Cheers,
Albert
Mauser 712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 10:33 AM   #7
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,986
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts
Default

Albert,
I will be very interested in seeing that military Bulgarian manual you will soon have which depicts both the Old and New Model Bulgarian Lugers. The earliest Bulgarian manual that I am aware of is for the M1911 Bulgarian and was printed in 1912. It shows the M1911 with the lanyard ring at the bottom of the grip but does not have an illustration of the Old Model.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 07:34 PM   #8
Mauser 712
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Hi Ron,

It is the same earliest manual that CW won on eBay, and it does depict the M1900 Old Model in one or two of the foldouts. I'll send you the images over the weekend.

Cheers,
Albert
Mauser 712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-06-2014, 11:17 AM   #9
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,986
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts
Default

Albert,
I stand corrected. The M1911 manual does show a view of the Old Model. On Plate 1 of the fold-outs, view #28 shows an Old Model barrel/receiver/toggle. All of the rest of the views are New Model.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-11-2014, 04:37 PM   #10
Stucki
User
 
Stucki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 83
Thanks: 1
Thanked 129 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser 712 View Post
If I understand the information on the front cover on my first edition Swiss manual, it appears that the M1900 Swiss Luger pistol was approved by the Federal Counsel on 2 April 1901 and the manual likely printed in 'X11 1901' by a printing press in Switzerland.
Not the pistol was approved on 2 April 1901 by Swiss Government but the manual (the gun was approved by the Swiss Government on 4 Mai 1900 as Pistol Model 1900). It seems that the Federal Council (Bundesrat) approved the manual on the basis of the German text and that the translation in French was made in Mai 1901 or even later, presumably by Major de Meuron, who was a member of the Rifle Commission.

Attached a letter from Director von Stürler (W+F) to the Ordnance Department (KMV) from 14 Mai 1901.

Alexander
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN3731.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	104.2 KB
ID:	44346  

Stucki is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 4 members says Thank You to Stucki for your post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com