Navy Marks?

Pistol · 12-13-2018, 12:08 PM

Are these legit Navy marks on a luger (W.K 10425) and HKO MÜNCHEN 18 holster (S.A.R.312)?

I see no Navy crown/M marks on the gun. Instead, there is a vertical N/crown on receiver, and no date on the top of chamber, suggesting it is a commercial luger. But the receiver does have the 1916 date.

Could it be a commercial luger reworked for the Navy or Weimar period?

Norme · 12-13-2018, 02:46 PM

May we see some more photos of the gun and holster? Does the gun have a 6" barrel and Navy rear sight?
Norm

Pistol · 12-14-2018, 09:10 AM

This is best I could get from the seller. No navy rear sight and it has a 4 inch barrel.

Now looking at it, I think it is a 1916 Navy frame with a mismatched commercial top, and a replacement barrel. The barrel has no numbers but does have whay appears to be a WWII mauser proof 855?

One wood bottom mag has X after the serial number. Also, a new serial number was etched in near the commercial C/N proof, apparently to match the toggle train. They etched in the last 2 digits of the toggle on the top of the extractor.

Any value in the frame, holster and mag?

Pistol · 12-14-2018, 09:12 AM

More photos

Norme · 12-14-2018, 09:37 AM

Hi Joe,
I think your diagnosis is correct. Has the holster been shortened to P08 length?
Norm

Pistol · 12-14-2018, 10:22 AM

Yes...and the mag pouch looks wider

Norme · 12-14-2018, 10:38 AM

That's too bad, I've never seen an HKO holster, only pouches.
Norm

Pistol · 12-14-2018, 10:51 AM

Yes shortened for 4-inch and mag pouch looks wider than normal.

Has a B.A. X stamp and the German words Wasch or Wazch Musik, which translates to washing music, or watch music? Seems odd, but I read that Schrage Musik was the name Germans gave to upward firing autocannon that were mounted to night fighter aircraft in WWII.

Pistol · 12-15-2018, 04:38 PM

Wow, 97 bids and over $2K. I guess someone thought it was legit.

DavidJayUden · 12-15-2018, 06:07 PM

Somebody may be in for some heartburn too...

m1903a3 · 12-15-2018, 07:46 PM

Too bad, a correct unit marked 1916 is a very rare bird.

Like Norm, I've never seen an HKO holster, only pouches.

Navy Frame, commercial receiver, Weimar or 3rd Reich era rework. IAW, a FrankenLuger.

DonVoigt · 12-15-2018, 08:01 PM

I believe the luger(at least the receiver) is a "Russian Capture"; see the electro pencil number on the left chamber- faint but there.

So a "East-Franken " luger.

I'd like to have the frame though, to go with my 1916 navy receiver

; but I don't see the $2k anywhere in that rig.

12-13-2018, 12:08 PM	#1
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Navy Marks? Are these legit Navy marks on a luger (W.K 10425) and HKO MÜNCHEN 18 holster (S.A.R.312)? I see no Navy crown/M marks on the gun. Instead, there is a vertical N/crown on receiver, and no date on the top of chamber, suggesting it is a commercial luger. But the receiver does have the 1916 date. Could it be a commercial luger reworked for the Navy or Weimar period? Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by Pistol; 12-14-2018 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Sar instead of SAB

12-14-2018, 09:10 AM	#3
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	This is best I could get from the seller. No navy rear sight and it has a 4 inch barrel. Now looking at it, I think it is a 1916 Navy frame with a mismatched commercial top, and a replacement barrel. The barrel has no numbers but does have whay appears to be a WWII mauser proof 855? One wood bottom mag has X after the serial number. Also, a new serial number was etched in near the commercial C/N proof, apparently to match the toggle train. They etched in the last 2 digits of the toggle on the top of the extractor. Any value in the frame, holster and mag? Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-14-2018, 09:12 AM	#4
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	More photos Attached Images

12-14-2018, 10:51 AM	#8
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Yes shortened for 4-inch and mag pouch looks wider than normal. Has a B.A. X stamp and the German words Wasch or Wazch Musik, which translates to washing music, or watch music? Seems odd, but I read that Schrage Musik was the name Germans gave to upward firing autocannon that were mounted to night fighter aircraft in WWII. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-15-2018, 04:38 PM	#9
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Wow, 97 bids and over $2K. I guess someone thought it was legit. Attached Images

12-13-2018, 02:46 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	May we see some more photos of the gun and holster? Does the gun have a 6" barrel and Navy rear sight? Norm

12-14-2018, 09:37 AM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Joe, I think your diagnosis is correct. Has the holster been shortened to P08 length? Norm

12-14-2018, 10:22 AM	#6
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Yes...and the mag pouch looks wider

12-14-2018, 10:38 AM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	That's too bad, I've never seen an HKO holster, only pouches. Norm

12-15-2018, 06:07 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Somebody may be in for some heartburn too...

12-15-2018, 07:46 PM	#11
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 197 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	Too bad, a correct unit marked 1916 is a very rare bird. Like Norm, I've never seen an HKO holster, only pouches. Navy Frame, commercial receiver, Weimar or 3rd Reich era rework. IAW, a FrankenLuger. __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum

12-15-2018, 08:01 PM	#12
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	I believe the luger(at least the receiver) is a "Russian Capture"; see the electro pencil number on the left chamber- faint but there. So a "East-Franken " luger. I'd like to have the frame though, to go with my 1916 navy receiver ; but I don't see the $2k anywhere in that rig. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie