lugers

rdgs · 06-27-2008, 04:07 PM

I have several lugers that I'm trying to find more information on and was just wandering if anyone could suggest any good books. I have looked at the Blue Book and a Military Firearms Collector's Guide. They have helped but don't hold all the answers I'm looking for. If anyone could suggest some good books I would appreciate it. I have a total of 9 guns that I'm trying to find info on.

Two of them are I believe 1914 Artillery one of which has all matching serial #'s dated 1917 and has a 9 on the grips (I've been told the 9 is for 9mm), the other Artillery is also dated 1917 and all #'s match except for the mag. They both have DWM stamped on top. Along w/other markings.

Another one is what I believe to be a 1914 Military 9mm dated 1918 and stamped on top w/Erfurt and a crown. Again all matching sn#'s and many other markings.

Another is a DWM 7.65 (1920 commercial ?) all sn#'s match not so many markings on this one it does have an N w/ a crown above it.

The one that is causing me the most trouble right now is dated 1936 and has S/42 on the top all numbers are matching. I have come across many that look like this one online but not one that has ivory grips which is what this one has. I've been told this was probably b/c it was issued to a higher up.

I know I've listed a lot of info here but have probably not listed enough. I do have pics I can try to post them. Any info would be helpful. Mostly I'm trying to determine the value. I have a store and have bought all these from one individual whose father had collected the guns.
Thanks for any help!!

Vlim · 06-27-2008, 04:18 PM

Hi,

You sure need some good reference info.

Drop the '1914' for starters. The military P08 (pistole 08) purchased by the german army had the production date on the chamber. So that makes your 1917 DWM LP08 a 1917 DWM LP08, and your 1918 Erfurt a 1918 Erfurt.

Furthermore, not a single military pistol had ivory grips on it. The grips are post-war add ons. S/42 was a code issued to Mauser. So, a 1936 Mauser S/42 with later grips (would have been wood originally).

Without photos it's difficult to do a proper assessement.

John Sabato · 06-27-2008, 04:18 PM

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

You won't get any estimates that will be even close without providing good clear closeup photos of the guns. Books are out of date too quickly to keep up with changes in the collector market.

Post your photos here by uploading them to the Lugerforum server. Please don't upload them elsewhere and then link to them from here. Those links get broken and make it difficult for the people who can help you to see your photos.

There is a photo upload tutorial in the New Collectors' Forum as a 'Sticky' at the top of the listing. It will teach you how to post your photos so we can help you.

Re: your 1937 S/42...No military Lugers were issued with Ivory grips and no self respecting German officer would have put non-issue grips on a government owned military Luger.

Edward Tinker · 06-27-2008, 04:26 PM

books link:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...&threadid=6937

mauro · 06-27-2008, 04:40 PM

Hi,
I guess you can find also useful information concerning the history of the Luger Artillery in my web site. Have a look:

www.lugerlp08.com

Have fun,
Mauro

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 09:08 AM

Okay thanks for all the help so far. Here are pictures of the first one my
log # for this gun is #43875.

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 09:19 AM

This one is #43876

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 09:25 AM

Okay this one is the 7.65 my #43860

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 09:32 AM

This one is 9mm dated 1918 all #'s matching

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 10:20 AM

Please let me know if I've listed the pictures above okay or if there is some other way I should be doing it. I'm not very computer friendly so any help w/that would be appreciated!! I do have pics of the Luger w/the Ivory grips but I will wait to make sure the pics above are okay.
Thanks again for any and all info!!

Navy · 06-28-2008, 10:21 AM

I really like the unusual unit applied red nine; I havent seen one with that shaped bottom before. A cool anamoly.

Tom A

rdgs · 06-28-2008, 10:27 AM

Do you believe that would have been done at the factory? The inside of the grips has the 18 from the serial #.

Ron Smith · 06-28-2008, 10:38 AM

"Do you believe that would have been done at the factory?'

Nope, a field armorer would have added it by directive. The traditional European 9 which looks like a lower-case g.

Ron

George Anderson · 06-28-2008, 03:01 PM

I believe that these two artilleries are currently being offered for sale by a gun shop in Gettysburg PA. I first caught on to them on Gunbroker.com with no photos and a starting price of $.99 and a buy it now of $5000 each. Out of curiosity I diverted from a trip to Allentown some months ago to look at them and asked at that time if there was any room in the price. I think that I was told that bottum dollar was $4800 or something like that. I thanked the nice person there and went on my way.

I did not take the pistols down but they did look good. As Tom says, the red nine is a very pleasing variation indicating company armorer work. I would place that pistol at a high of $3000 because of the grips but keep in mind that there are few who would pay that premium for the unique grips. The other artillery is perhaps $2000+ if you are patient. The P08 with ivory grips is an $800 pistol.

rdgs · 06-30-2008, 01:15 PM

Okay so here are the pics of the 1936 S/42 9mm w/the ivory grips

The last pic is intials that are on the underside of the grips.

Edward Tinker · 06-30-2008, 01:30 PM

unless renumbered or reblued the ivory grip one is worth a bit more. The grips, if real ivory are worth less to a collecor and more to someone who wants an obvious swastika symbol on their luger.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 06-30-2008, 04:14 PM

These are very fine grips for those who like this sort of thing but I do not believe they are ivory. They display none of the ivory charecteristics. Cracking, linier strata and the mellow color seen in genuine ivory.
Spectacular Police Eagle though!
Have you tested them?
There is a very simple test, easily done to tell you exactly.

Jerry Burney

lugerholsterrepair · 06-30-2008, 04:39 PM

Tac, Yes! If it smells like plastic it is..if it smells like burning hair it is ivory. Just a slight touch with a needle or pin heated to red hot with a candle or match on the back and a puff of smoke..enough to smell. Easy enough for anyone to do and foolproof.

Jerry Burney

LugerVern · 06-30-2008, 06:13 PM

Who was it that use to make these? Use to see them in the North East shows many years ago. Always had a table at the Baltimore show.

Well, I don't think they are real but I sure would like to see Tac skate backwards

Vern

Big Norm · 07-05-2008, 11:21 PM

Hey Vern, I'm with you on watching Tac skate backwards, blindfolded and around the CN tower while munching on some ivory grips with sauce on them. Do you have any idea where we can hire someone to make real ivory repro grips and substitute them on this gun. (Hee! Hee!) By the way, whats the CN tower?

Joking aside, some people do go crazy over unusual grips. I know that I have a pair that I regard as 'Trench Art' that are real neat. Both sides of these original wood grips have a two inch Prussian Eagle nicely carved on them. I had them on one of my chamber dated 1914 DWM artilleries and have long debated about taking them off because they are so cool.

Then again, I have a set of grips with some real neat stags carved on them that I got with a commercial Luger that I bought. Maybe I should start a side collection of various Luger grips.

I have also seen guys at gun auctions and estate sales go nutso over grips with various nazi symbols and coins. Now I am not saying that the grips in this thread are either original or even ivory. In my heart of hearts, I believe what you said about seeing some seller at a gun show selling these type of grips. But then again, it keeps going through my head that General George Patton had ivory grips on his pistols.
Big Norm

06-27-2008, 04:07 PM	#1
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	lugers I have several lugers that I'm trying to find more information on and was just wandering if anyone could suggest any good books. I have looked at the Blue Book and a Military Firearms Collector's Guide. They have helped but don't hold all the answers I'm looking for. If anyone could suggest some good books I would appreciate it. I have a total of 9 guns that I'm trying to find info on. Two of them are I believe 1914 Artillery one of which has all matching serial #'s dated 1917 and has a 9 on the grips (I've been told the 9 is for 9mm), the other Artillery is also dated 1917 and all #'s match except for the mag. They both have DWM stamped on top. Along w/other markings. Another one is what I believe to be a 1914 Military 9mm dated 1918 and stamped on top w/Erfurt and a crown. Again all matching sn#'s and many other markings. Another is a DWM 7.65 (1920 commercial ?) all sn#'s match not so many markings on this one it does have an N w/ a crown above it. The one that is causing me the most trouble right now is dated 1936 and has S/42 on the top all numbers are matching. I have come across many that look like this one online but not one that has ivory grips which is what this one has. I've been told this was probably b/c it was issued to a higher up. I know I've listed a lot of info here but have probably not listed enough. I do have pics I can try to post them. Any info would be helpful. Mostly I'm trying to determine the value. I have a store and have bought all these from one individual whose father had collected the guns. Thanks for any help!!

06-27-2008, 04:18 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum. You won't get any estimates that will be even close without providing good clear closeup photos of the guns. Books are out of date too quickly to keep up with changes in the collector market. Post your photos here by uploading them to the Lugerforum server. Please don't upload them elsewhere and then link to them from here. Those links get broken and make it difficult for the people who can help you to see your photos. There is a photo upload tutorial in the New Collectors' Forum as a 'Sticky' at the top of the listing. It will teach you how to post your photos so we can help you. Re: your 1937 S/42...No military Lugers were issued with Ivory grips and no self respecting German officer would have put non-issue grips on a government owned military Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-27-2008, 04:40 PM	#5
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi, I guess you can find also useful information concerning the history of the Luger Artillery in my web site. Have a look: www.lugerlp08.com Have fun, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-28-2008, 10:38 AM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	"Do you believe that would have been done at the factory?' Nope, a field armorer would have added it by directive. The traditional European 9 which looks like a lower-case g. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-30-2008, 01:30 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,524 Times in 2,090 Posts	unless renumbered or reblued the ivory grip one is worth a bit more. The grips, if real ivory are worth less to a collecor and more to someone who wants an obvious swastika symbol on their luger. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-27-2008, 04:18 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, You sure need some good reference info. Drop the '1914' for starters. The military P08 (pistole 08) purchased by the german army had the production date on the chamber. So that makes your 1917 DWM LP08 a 1917 DWM LP08, and your 1918 Erfurt a 1918 Erfurt. Furthermore, not a single military pistol had ivory grips on it. The grips are post-war add ons. S/42 was a code issued to Mauser. So, a 1936 Mauser S/42 with later grips (would have been wood originally). Without photos it's difficult to do a proper assessement.

06-27-2008, 04:26 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,524 Times in 2,090 Posts	books link: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...&threadid=6937 __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-28-2008, 09:08 AM	#6
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay thanks for all the help so far. Here are pictures of the first one my log # for this gun is #43875.

06-28-2008, 09:19 AM	#7
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This one is #43876

06-28-2008, 09:25 AM	#8
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay this one is the 7.65 my #43860

06-28-2008, 09:32 AM	#9
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This one is 9mm dated 1918 all #'s matching

06-28-2008, 10:20 AM	#10
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Please let me know if I've listed the pictures above okay or if there is some other way I should be doing it. I'm not very computer friendly so any help w/that would be appreciated!! I do have pics of the Luger w/the Ivory grips but I will wait to make sure the pics above are okay. Thanks again for any and all info!!

06-28-2008, 10:21 AM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I really like the unusual unit applied red nine; I havent seen one with that shaped bottom before. A cool anamoly. Tom A

06-28-2008, 10:27 AM	#12
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Do you believe that would have been done at the factory? The inside of the grips has the 18 from the serial #.

06-28-2008, 03:01 PM	#14
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	I believe that these two artilleries are currently being offered for sale by a gun shop in Gettysburg PA. I first caught on to them on Gunbroker.com with no photos and a starting price of $.99 and a buy it now of $5000 each. Out of curiosity I diverted from a trip to Allentown some months ago to look at them and asked at that time if there was any room in the price. I think that I was told that bottum dollar was $4800 or something like that. I thanked the nice person there and went on my way. I did not take the pistols down but they did look good. As Tom says, the red nine is a very pleasing variation indicating company armorer work. I would place that pistol at a high of $3000 because of the grips but keep in mind that there are few who would pay that premium for the unique grips. The other artillery is perhaps $2000+ if you are patient. The P08 with ivory grips is an $800 pistol.

06-30-2008, 01:15 PM	#15
rdgs User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pa Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay so here are the pics of the 1936 S/42 9mm w/the ivory grips The last pic is intials that are on the underside of the grips.

06-30-2008, 04:14 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,921 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	These are very fine grips for those who like this sort of thing but I do not believe they are ivory. They display none of the ivory charecteristics. Cracking, linier strata and the mellow color seen in genuine ivory. Spectacular Police Eagle though! Have you tested them? There is a very simple test, easily done to tell you exactly. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-30-2008, 04:39 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,921 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Tac, Yes! If it smells like plastic it is..if it smells like burning hair it is ivory. Just a slight touch with a needle or pin heated to red hot with a candle or match on the back and a puff of smoke..enough to smell. Easy enough for anyone to do and foolproof. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-30-2008, 06:13 PM	#19
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Who was it that use to make these? Use to see them in the North East shows many years ago. Always had a table at the Baltimore show. Well, I don't think they are real but I sure would like to see Tac skate backwards Vern

07-05-2008, 11:21 PM	#20
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Hey Vern, I'm with you on watching Tac skate backwards, blindfolded and around the CN tower while munching on some ivory grips with sauce on them. Do you have any idea where we can hire someone to make real ivory repro grips and substitute them on this gun. (Hee! Hee!) By the way, whats the CN tower? Joking aside, some people do go crazy over unusual grips. I know that I have a pair that I regard as 'Trench Art' that are real neat. Both sides of these original wood grips have a two inch Prussian Eagle nicely carved on them. I had them on one of my chamber dated 1914 DWM artilleries and have long debated about taking them off because they are so cool. Then again, I have a set of grips with some real neat stags carved on them that I got with a commercial Luger that I bought. Maybe I should start a side collection of various Luger grips. I have also seen guys at gun auctions and estate sales go nutso over grips with various nazi symbols and coins. Now I am not saying that the grips in this thread are either original or even ivory. In my heart of hearts, I believe what you said about seeing some seller at a gun show selling these type of grips. But then again, it keeps going through my head that General George Patton had ivory grips on his pistols. Big Norm