Luger Manufacturers

Hi Folks,


I've been visiting the Luger Forum for several months now, and thought I'd finally weigh in with a question.


Were there really eight (8) manufacturers (in the true sense of the word) of the Luger? Weren't Vickers and Spandau Lugers merely "assembled" from parts manufactured by DWM or Erfurt?


P.S. This is a great site!


Greg

[Thor]

Lets see, I do think you are right about Vickers and Spandau! Spandau is very controversial and many said they didnt really make ANY! DWM, Erfurt, Simson, Krieghoff, Swiss at Bern, Mauser and off course Parabellum Waffen Amerikana, just kidding, I only count 6! Thor

Greg & Ted, Interestingly enough there were only even 3 sets of Luger manufacturing tooling ever made (not counting the present AIMCO stainless reproduction): the original DWM machinery went to Mauser in 1930 and then perhaps used briefly by the French during the occupation before being destroyed. The 1910 Erfurt machinery next went to Simson at the end of WW1 and then to Kreighoff in about 1933. Probably stayed in Suhl at the Ernst Thaulmann Werk for sometime after WW2 until about 1953 when they reworked the retired lugers and put them into storage. Finally the 1916 Swiss Bern arsenal machinery which they had highly modified in 1929 was purchased my Mauser in 1970 and was used to make the Post WW2 Parabellums until about 1979.

[BILL]

Tom, good information! Puts the whole manufacturin history in a little different perspective. Thanks.

[Thor]

Thanks Tom, I appreciate the info! Thor

[Kyrie]

Hi Folks,


I can think of a couple of others, or maybe two-and-a-half others.


There is the St. Etienne bicycle works in France. I suspect this facility only assembled Lugers from parts supplied by Germany, but who knows?


And there are the Pathan gun makers located on the Pak/Afghan border who have made some very credible Lugers, complete with German manufacturing and proof marks.


And there is always South-East Asia, where one can find copies of almost *anything*.


Of these two-and-a-half sources for Lugers I think only the Pathans were true manufacturers, at least in the sense of making all the parts they used in assembly. As an aside, there is a (probably) Afghani produced Webley currently being offered on Auction Arms at:


http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1445421


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Greg]

Thanks to all!!

[Hugh]

I had a 32 S&W caliber Webley made in Afganhistan that a friend smuggled back when he returned from working over there. He had visited the village where they were making Webleys, Enfields, and several other types of firearms. All the work is done on hand operated machinery. It was an extremely well done copy, even down to the Webley trademark on the grips. Sold it recently at a gunshow to a collector of Webleys. I told him what it was and the story behind it, that I personally knew the guy who brought it to the US. He informed me that I was wrong, he could tell it was a genuine Webley because of the trademark on the grips! Go figure!

Now see we can share some information. Tom has a wealth of knowledge that he has accumulated over the years and not only knows his Luger history but of many other weapons as well. He never ceases to amaze when he starts digging out something from his vast accumulation of parts at the Kansas City show in response to someones request.


Thanks

Kyrie, I consider the St. Etien arms & cycles marking as well as the later Stoeger and Abercrombie marked Mausers, retailers markings. Even if these were applied by the manufacturer, which is not a proven fact, I don't consider these much different, from the current importers markings on the current crop of E German & Russian reworks. The only major difference is that the earlier markings were placed on new matching pistols for sale to the general public to promote the retailer, rather than by government import requirement and in much lower numbers.

[Kyrie]

Hi Tom,


Could be, but the St. Etienne Lugers show up with French (St. Etienne Proof House) proof rather than German proof. Thatâ??s a strong argument that the pistols were at least assembled, if not actually manufactured, in France.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Thor]

Pardon me gentlemen, I may be having a brain burp here, but has any of the original Luger making machines survived? Thor

Ted, I don't know for sure, but I doubt that Mauser distroyed (perhaps used for other purposes) their Swiss machinery in 1979. Also since the Erfurt/KH/E.German machinery was around as late as 1953, that's also a possibility. As far as French assembled M06 lugers: I doubt it. Many commerical M1906 lugers don't have any signs of German proofing, so the French may have required them to go thru their proof house. I once ask a British friend, why I see so many British proofed military lugers? He replied, that to legally register a German made war trophy pistol, it had to go thru one of the British proof houses. Any comments from our British members are welcome.

[Johnny Peppers]

Any weapon that was not manufactured in England that was sold commercially in England had to go through either the London or Birmingham Proof House