Luger importation marks?

Dean762 · 07-02-2004, 10:26 PM

If I was to import a luger from Switzerland does it have to be import marked? If so are there any exceptions?

Edward Tinker · 07-02-2004, 10:49 PM

I don't believe there are ANY exceptions, at least not for normal folks?

ed

Dean762 · 07-02-2004, 11:20 PM

Thanks for the info Ed. I think the thing that prompted the question is that there are so many guns around that dont have the marks. I just wondered if there were some exceptions. I have a Dane contract Sig 210 that had to have been brought into the country around 1995 and can find no import marks at all. It was always my understanding that the marks were mandated by GCA 68. The importation marks are one reason that I have hesitated to bring a luger in from Switzerland. Yet there seem to be many lugers at American distributers that dont have them or at least are advertised that way.

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2004, 12:22 AM

Newer inport marks are usually larger than they used to be. Plus, if the marking was very light to start with, it doesn't surprise me that it is "gone", or that there is a slim possibility that it was not marked.

Except for really obvious import markings, it is something I think I think I could live with, but to many collectors in america, they dismiss it as a non-collector piece...

Ed

Imperial Arms · 07-03-2004, 03:40 AM

Hello Dean,

It depends on how it is imported. If the Luger is a military Swiss model, it has to be imported by a licensed importer who should apply his import stamp. If it is a commercial Swiss model, then any licensed dealer can import the Luger using a ATF Form 6 application and no stamps are applied.

I hope this information is helpful to you. If you need further information, you can contact me at Imperialarms@att.net

Good luck,
Albert

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2004, 10:30 AM

Thanks Albert, I didn't know that about commercial models!

Ed

Dean762 · 07-03-2004, 10:34 AM

Yes. Thanks Albert for the info. I hadnt heard this before.

Pete Ebbink · 07-03-2004, 12:41 PM

Hi Dean,

I could be off on the date, but I think with some 1968 gun legislation...guns began being marked when imported.

Some of the military, Swiss lugers in the USA without the import marks may have been brought in before that 1968 date...I have several Swiss military issue lugers (having the +/V or the +/M inspector stamps) that do not have import markings...so I assume they came into the States prior to that time period.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2004, 01:50 PM

This is something I am not sure about. But at some point, lugers were required to be marked with country of manufacture, i.e. Germany on the frame and it is in assorted places. Who marked the germany on the guns anywho? Was it DWM and the like or some importer in the USA?

Dean762 · 07-03-2004, 02:33 PM

Yes. Its my understanding that GCA 68 was when they started it.

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2004, 09:50 PM

Maybe for some import marking, but the Germany stamping was on commerical lugers coming into the country during the 30's on.

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 07-03-2004, 10:02 PM

Hi Ed,

Maybe I am confused...

The import marks I think were asked about, initially, would be the Importer's stamping...e.g. Simpsons or Interarms or Sarco, etc...occuring only after 1968

The "Germany" is another matter...and you raise a good question. Was the "Germany" stamping done by DWM or others in the receving country ? I think these appeared as early as the 1920's...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2004, 11:16 PM

Would you call the germany an export or an import stamping? I thought it was required to be stamped on any guns coming to america, thus an "import" stamping. Different from today, but an import stamping.

Recent discussion on this:

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...c;f=1;t=000200
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Also if you look at the "GERMANY" import mark do you see a halo around it?<hr /></blockquote>http://forums.lugerforum.com/cgi-bin/lugerforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_top ic;f=1;t=000088
<blockquote>quote:<hr />All commercial Eagles will be stamped GERMANY.

and

Your Luger has the American Eagle on the chamber and the Germany stamp on the front. It is an 1900 AE Commercial imported into the U.S. for sale to the sporting and gun buying public.<hr /></blockquote>and this one;
http://forums.lugerforum.com/cgi-bin/lugerforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00 0062

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The pistols were standard Model 1900 Lugers with the Great Seal of the United States on the chamber, but did not have any proofs or the GERMANY import mark.

and

Therefore, if a serious collector wants an undisputable 1900 US Test Trails Luger, find one that falls in the 6100-7100 serial range; it has an American eagle on the chamber; it has the serial number stamped on the right side of the takedown lever; no proof marks; and no 'Germany' stamp.<hr /></blockquote>Ed

Pete Ebbink · 07-30-2004, 12:42 AM

Sorry, Ed,...I missed your follow-up comments and questions up to now.

I thought the "Germany" stamps were applied to the lugers leaving Germany and not being sold in Germany. Since they were applied by DWM, I would venture to call them "export" stampings.

Import stampings I would consider such stampings as "Interarmco", etc...those applied by the company bringing guns into the US for retail sales.

Just a WAG...on my part...

Regards,

Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 07-30-2004, 01:46 AM

Pete,
The GERMANY stamp occurred quite early on. 1900 American Eagle Lugers were produced starting around serial number 2000 and were stamped GERMANY. You are correct that it is an "export" stamp applied by the maker for weapons destined for an English speaking market rather than an import stamp applied in the US.

Edward Tinker · 07-30-2004, 11:25 AM

I know this must be word semantics, i.e. export or import marking. So I won't read into what others have said about "import" markings.

But, there must be a rule, law or regulation that said that arms leaving germany would be marked germany? I have a german proof marking book at home, will try and look it up (like Ron, the moving bit puts the book collection all haphazard).

Ed

07-02-2004, 10:26 PM	#1
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger importation marks? If I was to import a luger from Switzerland does it have to be import marked? If so are there any exceptions?

07-02-2004, 10:49 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	I don't believe there are ANY exceptions, at least not for normal folks? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2004, 12:22 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	Newer inport marks are usually larger than they used to be. Plus, if the marking was very light to start with, it doesn't surprise me that it is "gone", or that there is a slim possibility that it was not marked. Except for really obvious import markings, it is something I think I think I could live with, but to many collectors in america, they dismiss it as a non-collector piece... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2004, 10:30 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	Thanks Albert, I didn't know that about commercial models! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2004, 01:50 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	This is something I am not sure about. But at some point, lugers were required to be marked with country of manufacture, i.e. Germany on the frame and it is in assorted places. Who marked the germany on the guns anywho? Was it DWM and the like or some importer in the USA? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-02-2004, 11:20 PM	#3
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info Ed. I think the thing that prompted the question is that there are so many guns around that dont have the marks. I just wondered if there were some exceptions. I have a Dane contract Sig 210 that had to have been brought into the country around 1995 and can find no import marks at all. It was always my understanding that the marks were mandated by GCA 68. The importation marks are one reason that I have hesitated to bring a luger in from Switzerland. Yet there seem to be many lugers at American distributers that dont have them or at least are advertised that way.

07-03-2004, 03:40 AM	#5
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Hello Dean, It depends on how it is imported. If the Luger is a military Swiss model, it has to be imported by a licensed importer who should apply his import stamp. If it is a commercial Swiss model, then any licensed dealer can import the Luger using a ATF Form 6 application and no stamps are applied. I hope this information is helpful to you. If you need further information, you can contact me at Imperialarms@att.net Good luck, Albert

07-03-2004, 10:34 AM	#7
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes. Thanks Albert for the info. I hadnt heard this before.

07-03-2004, 12:41 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dean, I could be off on the date, but I think with some 1968 gun legislation...guns began being marked when imported. Some of the military, Swiss lugers in the USA without the import marks may have been brought in before that 1968 date...I have several Swiss military issue lugers (having the +/V or the +/M inspector stamps) that do not have import markings...so I assume they came into the States prior to that time period. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-03-2004, 02:33 PM	#10
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes. Its my understanding that GCA 68 was when they started it.

07-03-2004, 09:50 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	Maybe for some import marking, but the Germany stamping was on commerical lugers coming into the country during the 30's on. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2004, 10:02 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ed, Maybe I am confused... The import marks I think were asked about, initially, would be the Importer's stamping...e.g. Simpsons or Interarms or Sarco, etc...occuring only after 1968 The "Germany" is another matter...and you raise a good question. Was the "Germany" stamping done by DWM or others in the receving country ? I think these appeared as early as the 1920's... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-03-2004, 11:16 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	Would you call the germany an export or an import stamping? I thought it was required to be stamped on any guns coming to america, thus an "import" stamping. Different from today, but an import stamping. Recent discussion on this: http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...c;f=1;t=000200 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Also if you look at the "GERMANY" import mark do you see a halo around it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">http://forums.lugerforum.com/cgi-bin/lugerforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_top ic;f=1;t=000088 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">All commercial Eagles will be stamped GERMANY. and Your Luger has the American Eagle on the chamber and the Germany stamp on the front. It is an 1900 AE Commercial imported into the U.S. for sale to the sporting and gun buying public.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">and this one; http://forums.lugerforum.com/cgi-bin/lugerforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00 0062 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The pistols were standard Model 1900 Lugers with the Great Seal of the United States on the chamber, but did not have any proofs or the GERMANY import mark. and Therefore, if a serious collector wants an undisputable 1900 US Test Trails Luger, find one that falls in the 6100-7100 serial range; it has an American eagle on the chamber; it has the serial number stamped on the right side of the takedown lever; no proof marks; and no 'Germany' stamp.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-30-2004, 12:42 AM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Sorry, Ed,...I missed your follow-up comments and questions up to now. I thought the "Germany" stamps were applied to the lugers leaving Germany and not being sold in Germany. Since they were applied by DWM, I would venture to call them "export" stampings. Import stampings I would consider such stampings as "Interarmco", etc...those applied by the company bringing guns into the US for retail sales. Just a WAG...on my part... Regards, Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-30-2004, 01:46 AM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Pete, The GERMANY stamp occurred quite early on. 1900 American Eagle Lugers were produced starting around serial number 2000 and were stamped GERMANY. You are correct that it is an "export" stamp applied by the maker for weapons destined for an English speaking market rather than an import stamp applied in the US. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-30-2004, 11:25 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,914 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts	I know this must be word semantics, i.e. export or import marking. So I won't read into what others have said about "import" markings. But, there must be a rule, law or regulation that said that arms leaving germany would be marked germany? I have a german proof marking book at home, will try and look it up (like Ron, the moving bit puts the book collection all haphazard). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV