Interesting...

Roadkill · 10-15-2002, 11:34 AM

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3353204

rk

Doubs · 10-15-2002, 06:01 PM

RK, the picture you posted showing the UMC softnose cartridge reminds me of a Luger story that my father told me several times over the years.

My grandfather owned a feed mill that sold feed for cows, pigs, chickens etc. They also ground flour, shelled corn, treated wheat and custom mixed feed for livestock. The grain, of course, meant rats and mice so granddaddy liked to keep a few cats around. Every now and again a stray cat would wander in and cause trouble. One, in particular, was a large tom cat that caused more trouble than usual and granddaddy wanted him taken care of. This was sometime in the late 1920's.

My father had recently bought a 4 3/4" pencil barrel Luger in .30 caliber so my grandfather mentioned that it should make short work of the tom cat. At the first opportunity my father put a shot into the cat broadside. The full metal jacket bullet passed right through. The cat yowled, jumped in the air and took off in afterburner. My grandfather howled too... with laughter! He kidded my father about the Luger pretty badly and Pop was burned over it. In a week or 10 days the tom cat was back, seemingly no worse off for the experience.

Not long after the car returned my father went to town and was in the store where he'd bought the Luger and cartridges. He told the salesman - a shooter in his own right - about the cat. The salesman suggested that he try softnose cartridges so Pop bought a box.

When granddaddy saw Pop with the Luger, he began chuckling again but that stopped when Pop shot the cat. The cat was dead before it hit the ground and Pop said that the softnose cartridge was really "wicked". Granddaddy couldn't believe that a small bullet could do that much damage... but it did. Pop shot various small animals with the .30 Luger and softnose bullets. They always performed as expected and he was never disappointed again.

John Sabato · 10-16-2002, 11:29 AM

I think the cat simply had one life left of the original nine when he was shot with FMJ slug... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

The softnosed bullet took life number 9! <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Doubs · 10-17-2002, 12:26 PM

John, my impression when Pop told the story was that the ol' Tom lost only one life to the FMJ and 8 more to the softpoint!

The softpoint in the link picture looks like it would expand pretty well... lots of exposed lead. IIRC, Pop explained that some reports indicated poor results with the softnose and hollowpoints, a fact that he mentioned to the salesman. The salesman apparently knew his business and told Pop that those reports were not correct. Pop had a pretty high opinion of those old softnose cartridges and I wish I knew what brand they were. He owned several .30's over the years and especially liked the 4 3/4 inch barrel models. One was a "Safe & Loaded" while another was a commercial Artillery in .30 caliber.

unspellable · 10-17-2002, 01:17 PM

I've heard stories of the old soft point and hollow point loads not expanding very well. One wonders how they actually did.

I have some old Winchester 30 Luger hollowpoints. To look at them, the hollow point looks small and the jacket looks tough. Due to their age I am leery of actually firing one. Don't like messing about with corrosive primers either.

In my own experience, 7.65 mm hardballs did a pretty good job at stopping jack rabbits. They are notoriously tougher than cottontails.

Now days, we have bullets that will expand reliably at handgun velocities. Now if only we could get one made specifically for the 7.65 Luger!

Doubs · 10-17-2002, 02:16 PM

[quote]Originally posted by unspellable:
<strong>I've heard stories of the old soft point and hollow point loads not expanding very well. One wonders how they actually did.

Now days, we have bullets that will expand reliably at handgun velocities. Now if only we could get one made specifically for the 7.65 Luger!</strong><hr></blockquote>

According to my father, the softpoints he used were - in his words - "wicked" on small animals. I don't recall that he ever mentioned using hollowpoints although he did say they were available.

The commercial .30 Erfurt I now own was his and I loaded 90 grain .312" Sierra JHC bullets for him. They worked through the action without problems and the one time they were used on an animal - a story I related earlier on the forum - a single shot turned a large groundhog nearly inside-out. The .312" Sierra bullets are made for the .32 H&R Magnum and the .30 Luger cartridge has no problems reaching the velocities of the .32 Mag.

The 85 grain JHP Hornady XTP bullet also works well. A gallon jug of water I shot at about 22 yards a couple of weeks ago fairly exploded when hit.

10-15-2002, 11:34 AM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Interesting... http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3353204 rk

10-16-2002, 11:29 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I think the cat simply had one life left of the original nine when he was shot with FMJ slug... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] The softnosed bullet took life number 9! <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-15-2002, 06:01 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	RK, the picture you posted showing the UMC softnose cartridge reminds me of a Luger story that my father told me several times over the years. My grandfather owned a feed mill that sold feed for cows, pigs, chickens etc. They also ground flour, shelled corn, treated wheat and custom mixed feed for livestock. The grain, of course, meant rats and mice so granddaddy liked to keep a few cats around. Every now and again a stray cat would wander in and cause trouble. One, in particular, was a large tom cat that caused more trouble than usual and granddaddy wanted him taken care of. This was sometime in the late 1920's. My father had recently bought a 4 3/4" pencil barrel Luger in .30 caliber so my grandfather mentioned that it should make short work of the tom cat. At the first opportunity my father put a shot into the cat broadside. The full metal jacket bullet passed right through. The cat yowled, jumped in the air and took off in afterburner. My grandfather howled too... with laughter! He kidded my father about the Luger pretty badly and Pop was burned over it. In a week or 10 days the tom cat was back, seemingly no worse off for the experience. Not long after the car returned my father went to town and was in the store where he'd bought the Luger and cartridges. He told the salesman - a shooter in his own right - about the cat. The salesman suggested that he try softnose cartridges so Pop bought a box. When granddaddy saw Pop with the Luger, he began chuckling again but that stopped when Pop shot the cat. The cat was dead before it hit the ground and Pop said that the softnose cartridge was really "wicked". Granddaddy couldn't believe that a small bullet could do that much damage... but it did. Pop shot various small animals with the .30 Luger and softnose bullets. They always performed as expected and he was never disappointed again.

10-17-2002, 12:26 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	John, my impression when Pop told the story was that the ol' Tom lost only one life to the FMJ and 8 more to the softpoint! The softpoint in the link picture looks like it would expand pretty well... lots of exposed lead. IIRC, Pop explained that some reports indicated poor results with the softnose and hollowpoints, a fact that he mentioned to the salesman. The salesman apparently knew his business and told Pop that those reports were not correct. Pop had a pretty high opinion of those old softnose cartridges and I wish I knew what brand they were. He owned several .30's over the years and especially liked the 4 3/4 inch barrel models. One was a "Safe & Loaded" while another was a commercial Artillery in .30 caliber.

10-17-2002, 01:17 PM	#5
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	I've heard stories of the old soft point and hollow point loads not expanding very well. One wonders how they actually did. I have some old Winchester 30 Luger hollowpoints. To look at them, the hollow point looks small and the jacket looks tough. Due to their age I am leery of actually firing one. Don't like messing about with corrosive primers either. In my own experience, 7.65 mm hardballs did a pretty good job at stopping jack rabbits. They are notoriously tougher than cottontails. Now days, we have bullets that will expand reliably at handgun velocities. Now if only we could get one made specifically for the 7.65 Luger!

10-17-2002, 02:16 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by unspellable: <strong>I've heard stories of the old soft point and hollow point loads not expanding very well. One wonders how they actually did. Now days, we have bullets that will expand reliably at handgun velocities. Now if only we could get one made specifically for the 7.65 Luger!</strong><hr></blockquote> According to my father, the softpoints he used were - in his words - "wicked" on small animals. I don't recall that he ever mentioned using hollowpoints although he did say they were available. The commercial .30 Erfurt I now own was his and I loaded 90 grain .312" Sierra JHC bullets for him. They worked through the action without problems and the one time they were used on an animal - a story I related earlier on the forum - a single shot turned a large groundhog nearly inside-out. The .312" Sierra bullets are made for the .32 H&R Magnum and the .30 Luger cartridge has no problems reaching the velocities of the .32 Mag. The 85 grain JHP Hornady XTP bullet also works well. A gallon jug of water I shot at about 22 yards a couple of weeks ago fairly exploded when hit.