SHOULDER STOCK

11-15-2001, 04:35 PM

UPS JUST DELIVERED A SHOULDER STOCK I PURCHASED OFF OF AUCTION ARMS. IT APPEARS TO BE AN ORIGINAL AS REPRESENTED BY THE SELLER. HOWEVER, IT DOES NOT WANT TO LOCK UP ON TO THE LUG PROPERLY. I AM ATTACHING IT TO A 1918 DWM 4" MILITARY, BUT IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT WANTS TO SLIDE DOWN THE LUG FAR ENOUGH TO ENGAGE THE LOCKING BAR ON THE STOCK. THE STOCK IS NUMBERED 2205 ON THE TANG OF THE IRON AND THERE IS A SMALL "C" DIRECTLY BENEATH THE 0. THE WOOD AND METAL ARE NICELY PATINATED. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG, OR IS IT THAT NOT ALL STOCKS FIT EVERY PISTOL LUG?

Thor · 11-15-2001, 04:42 PM

David, I am not sure, but I think they would fit any of them, but I must tell you , it is illegal (I know, a dumb law, but a law never the less) to attach an Artillery Luger stock to any Luger OTHER THAN an Artillery Luger. BATF laws. John Sabato has stated this many times! This information is given for your protection. An Artillery Luger and accompany Artillery stock is okay! Even a Navy Stock and an Artillery Luger is VERBOTEN! ~Thor~

11-15-2001, 04:49 PM

THANKS FOR THE SCOLDING THOR. THE ARTILLERY FOR WHICH I HAD PURCHASED THE STOCK IS WITH A FRIEND WHO IS REPLACING AN EXTRACTOR FOR ME. I LOCKED THE DOORS AND TURNED DOWN ALL THE LIGHTS.

John Sabato · 11-15-2001, 05:06 PM

in diagnosing your problem. And I don't recommend experimentation with the 4" Luger... Wait until you get your artillery Luger back to be safe and legal.

While you are waiting for the return of your Artillery Model, I would recommend you spend some time reading the ATF website about what combinations of stocks and Lugers are legal to keep yourself out of trouble...

You can also do searches here on the forum for discussions on this topic...

Also, please type in lower case as all uppers usually indicates shouting and is also very hard to read...

Thanks,

John Sabato

Thor · 11-15-2001, 06:08 PM

No Scolding intended, just spreading the word to keep you out of trouble buddy! I know this stuff stinks, but like to keep the good guys safe yanno! Please dont take it the wrong way, best intentions I assure you! Thor

Johnny Peppers · 11-15-2001, 06:59 PM

Many parts of the Luger required minor hand fitting for an exact fit, and as the 4" was never intended to have a stock attached the fit may be off by a few thousandths. I have one artillery that the shoulder stock that goes with another artillery does not fit exactly. The lock doesn't want to go all the way into position.

Kyrie · 11-15-2001, 08:33 PM

Hi Dave,

Shoulder stocks were fitted to individual pistols to assure a close fit. For the most part there wasnÃ¢??t much fitting as both stock lugs and attaching irons were pretty much the same, but itÃ¢??s not unusual to find stock/Luger combinations that either donÃ¢??t fit together, or fit with considerable slop.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,

Kyrie

11-16-2001, 12:15 AM

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry if my reply to Thor sounded as if I were angry, just my feeble attempt at humor. Also, thanks for the tip from John re. communication etiquite, I'm a little new at this.

JuergenG · 11-16-2001, 04:31 AM

I learn from Thor's post that it is illegal in the U.S. to mount an artillery shoulder stock to any other Luger than an artillery.

Strange, as the U.S. are mostly way more liberal on firearms regulations than Germany.

Although we face very strict regulations on firearms in Germany shoulder stocks are not an issue over here.

The BdMP (Association of Military and Police Shooters) does even have a special competition for Ordnance Pistols developed up to 1945 having a lug for a shoulder stock.

We shoot 3 series of 5 rds. each in 60/90/120 seconds, 25 meters distance.

Artillery type stocks (mostly remakes used) can be mounted onto any Luger variant.

Lugers dominate this competition, other pistols used are a few Mauser C96 broom handle and, very little, Browning High Power.

Juergen

Marvin · 11-16-2001, 07:07 AM

Dave,

I have a stock with my Artillery and it fits that particular pistol only. I have tried it on some of my other WWI pistols and it is the same as yours; just does not fit in the final lockup. The stock will hardly start on the Mauser lugs. When reading "The Kreighoff Parabellum", Gibson notes that the stock lug on the Mauser Army pistols was for locating and positioning the frame for machining and was not really intended to attach a stock.

As Johnny stated, I feel they were hand fitted also and only a few thousandths will make a difference if they fit or not.

Marvin

JuergenG · 11-16-2001, 08:20 AM

What are prices for originals and remakes in the U.S. ?

Can't tell for originals; remakes here sell for approx. $ 70.

Juergen

11-16-2001, 08:57 AM

Juergen, I'd like to purchase some of those $70 repro LPO8 stocks. Who is selling them in Germany? CDS? Since CMR in Britian wants about that much, with S&H, for just the repro stock iron. The best current price that I've seen here in the USA for a complete repro stock is $125 + S&H from Gun Parts Corp.

JuergenG · 11-16-2001, 09:27 AM

Tom,

CDS sells them at DEM 148.-

"Ari-anschlagbrett, neu" .

Here is the link to their P08 parts & accessories list.

http://www.cds-ehrenreich.de/zubehoer/08.htm

They offer parts by serial no's. with a DEM 20 surcharge.

Juergen

Aaron · 11-16-2001, 12:25 PM

When attaching repo broomhandle stocks, it is very unusual to get one to fit well without opening up the rails on the stock. I use a Dreml tool with a fine grinding drum for this, and just a couple of passes does the job. No two pistols seem to have exactly the same dimensions.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-16-2001, 12:36 PM

Bart, If you line up several lugers and look at the attaching area side by side you will notice that some are shallow and some are deep in the curved locking notch and all are different to some degree. Marvin had it right and not all stocks will fit any particular pistol and lock up without some fitting and that involves grinding something. I have fitted all of my Artilleries and Navies to stocks but you must be very careful. You can easily reduce the collectability and value of your pistol or stock. If you have a shooter then it is much less of an issue but a true collector piece probably should be thought about before attempting such a re-fit. Jerry

11-17-2001, 07:40 AM

Dave,

When you consider attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol.

#1, Be CERTAIN that the combination is LEGAL, ( MOST ARE NOT , WITHOUT A SPECIAL ( Expensive ) FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE).

#2, IF ALTERATIONS ARE NECESSARY, Modify Only the part that is of lesser historical value.

Or IF both are Valuable DO NOT ALTER EITHER, as they most likely are of greater historical value as separate items.

#3, Unless you are absolutely certain of the legallity and proper quality of what you about to do. "DONT"

(My best opinion only),

If you chose yes, Much luck and have a good time as you now join the circle of "LOL Addicts".

ViggoG

schwob · 11-17-2001, 10:36 AM

Viggo, are you back with us? If so, welcome, great to see your name on our message board.

11-15-2001, 05:06 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Dave, Photos of the stock attachment iron would be helpful in diagnosing your problem. And I don't recommend experimentation with the 4" Luger... Wait until you get your artillery Luger back to be safe and legal. While you are waiting for the return of your Artillery Model, I would recommend you spend some time reading the ATF website about what combinations of stocks and Lugers are legal to keep yourself out of trouble... You can also do searches here on the forum for discussions on this topic... Also, please type in lower case as all uppers usually indicates shouting and is also very hard to read... Thanks, John Sabato

11-15-2001, 06:08 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK No Scolding intended, just spreading the word to keep you out of trouble buddy! I know this stuff stinks, but like to keep the good guys safe yanno! Please dont take it the wrong way, best intentions I assure you! Thor

11-15-2001, 06:59 PM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Dave, Photos of the stock attachment iron would be helpful Many parts of the Luger required minor hand fitting for an exact fit, and as the 4" was never intended to have a stock attached the fit may be off by a few thousandths. I have one artillery that the shoulder stock that goes with another artillery does not fit exactly. The lock doesn't want to go all the way into position.

11-15-2001, 08:33 PM	#7
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK Hi Dave, Shoulder stocks were fitted to individual pistols to assure a close fit. For the most part there wasnÃ¢??t much fitting as both stock lugs and attaching irons were pretty much the same, but itÃ¢??s not unusual to find stock/Luger combinations that either donÃ¢??t fit together, or fit with considerable slop. Hope this helps! Best regards, Kyrie

11-16-2001, 12:15 AM	#8
DAVE HOPKINS Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Dave, Photos of the stock attachment iron would be helpful Thanks for the help guys. Sorry if my reply to Thor sounded as if I were angry, just my feeble attempt at humor. Also, thanks for the tip from John re. communication etiquite, I'm a little new at this.

11-15-2001, 04:35 PM	#1
DAVE HOPKINS Guest Posts: n/a	SHOULDER STOCK UPS JUST DELIVERED A SHOULDER STOCK I PURCHASED OFF OF AUCTION ARMS. IT APPEARS TO BE AN ORIGINAL AS REPRESENTED BY THE SELLER. HOWEVER, IT DOES NOT WANT TO LOCK UP ON TO THE LUG PROPERLY. I AM ATTACHING IT TO A 1918 DWM 4" MILITARY, BUT IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT WANTS TO SLIDE DOWN THE LUG FAR ENOUGH TO ENGAGE THE LOCKING BAR ON THE STOCK. THE STOCK IS NUMBERED 2205 ON THE TANG OF THE IRON AND THERE IS A SMALL "C" DIRECTLY BENEATH THE 0. THE WOOD AND METAL ARE NICELY PATINATED. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG, OR IS IT THAT NOT ALL STOCKS FIT EVERY PISTOL LUG?

11-15-2001, 04:42 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK David, I am not sure, but I think they would fit any of them, but I must tell you , it is illegal (I know, a dumb law, but a law never the less) to attach an Artillery Luger stock to any Luger OTHER THAN an Artillery Luger. BATF laws. John Sabato has stated this many times! This information is given for your protection. An Artillery Luger and accompany Artillery stock is okay! Even a Navy Stock and an Artillery Luger is VERBOTEN! ~Thor~

11-15-2001, 04:49 PM	#3
DAVE HOPKINS Guest Posts: n/a	Re: SHOULDER STOCK THANKS FOR THE SCOLDING THOR. THE ARTILLERY FOR WHICH I HAD PURCHASED THE STOCK IS WITH A FRIEND WHO IS REPLACING AN EXTRACTOR FOR ME. I LOCKED THE DOORS AND TURNED DOWN ALL THE LIGHTS.

11-16-2001, 04:31 AM	#9
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK I learn from Thor's post that it is illegal in the U.S. to mount an artillery shoulder stock to any other Luger than an artillery. Strange, as the U.S. are mostly way more liberal on firearms regulations than Germany. Although we face very strict regulations on firearms in Germany shoulder stocks are not an issue over here. The BdMP (Association of Military and Police Shooters) does even have a special competition for Ordnance Pistols developed up to 1945 having a lug for a shoulder stock. We shoot 3 series of 5 rds. each in 60/90/120 seconds, 25 meters distance. Artillery type stocks (mostly remakes used) can be mounted onto any Luger variant. Lugers dominate this competition, other pistols used are a few Mauser C96 broom handle and, very little, Browning High Power. Juergen

11-16-2001, 07:07 AM	#10
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re:stock attachment iron Dave, I have a stock with my Artillery and it fits that particular pistol only. I have tried it on some of my other WWI pistols and it is the same as yours; just does not fit in the final lockup. The stock will hardly start on the Mauser lugs. When reading "The Kreighoff Parabellum", Gibson notes that the stock lug on the Mauser Army pistols was for locating and positioning the frame for machining and was not really intended to attach a stock. As Johnny stated, I feel they were hand fitted also and only a few thousandths will make a difference if they fit or not. Marvin

11-16-2001, 08:20 AM	#11
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK PRICES What are prices for originals and remakes in the U.S. ? Can't tell for originals; remakes here sell for approx. $ 70. Juergen

11-16-2001, 08:57 AM	#12
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: SHOULDER STOCK PRICES Juergen, I'd like to purchase some of those $70 repro LPO8 stocks. Who is selling them in Germany? CDS? Since CMR in Britian wants about that much, with S&H, for just the repro stock iron. The best current price that I've seen here in the USA for a complete repro stock is $125 + S&H from Gun Parts Corp.

11-16-2001, 09:27 AM	#13
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	@Tom H Re: SHOULDER STOCK PRICES Tom, CDS sells them at DEM 148.- "Ari-anschlagbrett, neu" . Here is the link to their P08 parts & accessories list. http://www.cds-ehrenreich.de/zubehoer/08.htm They offer parts by serial no's. with a DEM 20 surcharge. Juergen

11-16-2001, 12:25 PM	#14
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Broomhandles are the same When attaching repo broomhandle stocks, it is very unusual to get one to fit well without opening up the rails on the stock. I use a Dreml tool with a fine grinding drum for this, and just a couple of passes does the job. No two pistols seem to have exactly the same dimensions.

11-16-2001, 12:36 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Re: SHOULDER STOCK Bart, If you line up several lugers and look at the attaching area side by side you will notice that some are shallow and some are deep in the curved locking notch and all are different to some degree. Marvin had it right and not all stocks will fit any particular pistol and lock up without some fitting and that involves grinding something. I have fitted all of my Artilleries and Navies to stocks but you must be very careful. You can easily reduce the collectability and value of your pistol or stock. If you have a shooter then it is much less of an issue but a true collector piece probably should be thought about before attempting such a re-fit. Jerry

11-17-2001, 07:40 AM	#16
Viggo G Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	Re: "Chose With Care" SHOULDER STOCK Dave, When you consider attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol. #1, Be CERTAIN that the combination is LEGAL, ( MOST ARE NOT , WITHOUT A SPECIAL ( Expensive ) FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE). #2, IF ALTERATIONS ARE NECESSARY, Modify Only the part that is of lesser historical value. Or IF both are Valuable DO NOT ALTER EITHER, as they most likely are of greater historical value as separate items. #3, Unless you are absolutely certain of the legallity and proper quality of what you about to do. "DONT" (My best opinion only), If you chose yes, Much luck and have a good time as you now join the circle of "LOL Addicts". ViggoG

11-17-2001, 10:36 AM	#17
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: "Chose With Care" SHOULDER STOCK Viggo, are you back with us? If so, welcome, great to see your name on our message board.