Strange Police P-08

SIGP2101 · 01-25-2012, 11:14 AM

Curious about these accessories and what their purpose may be? They look like some kind of gauges. All I can guess is that this is police P08 and that it has some unit markings but that is all. Guys let me pick your brains because that is what I am enjoying immensely.

SIGP2101

alanint · 01-25-2012, 11:33 AM

The muzzle fitting appears to be the sub-caliber device to convert to .22 rimfire.

The curious thing is that the holster appears to be designed to fit the gun with the device attached.

Norme · 01-25-2012, 11:38 AM

Hi Joe, It looks like a Gomann sub-caliber insert device. Sub caliber training devices were used extensively by the German Police, not only for reasons of economy, but also because of a shortage of ranges suitable for high powered ammunition. Regards, Norm

mrerick · 01-25-2012, 11:38 AM

According to: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html

"LS.AI" is the unit mark from Allenstein Landjaegerei school.

Book is Schmidtt's "Weapon Technology Teaching Book for the Police Officer" published in Berlin in 1928.

So this could well be a complete training rig!

There doesn't appear to be much of a hole in the barrel inserts. Could they be a group of blank firing attachments, perhaps tuned to create different malfunctions?

Nice! Marc

John Sabato · 01-25-2012, 01:36 PM

I beleive that the sub-caliber training device shown n the photo is actually 4mm in bore size and used special 4mm cartridges... The device is a single shot, and does not function the Luger for use with a magazine.

Alanint, I think the angle of the photo makes it look like the holster is longer than it actually is... in other words, an optical illusion. With the sub-caliber device fitted that barrel length is almost 6 inches long... it would require a holster the same size as a Navy Luger to accomodate the assembled device and gun IMHO.

SIGP2101 · 01-25-2012, 02:51 PM

What would be other four metal thingies shown between holster and book?
I am inclined to accept that those could be blank firing adopters as mentioned by Marc.

Don M · 01-25-2012, 05:11 PM

I agree with the above replies. An outstanding assemblage!!

SIGP2101 · 01-26-2012, 03:17 PM

Norme, do you referring to something like this?

Second pic looks exactly like attachment inside the barrel of that P-08. That is .22 adapter indeed. Other 4 objects on that picture I have no idea what they may be for. They do not look like 4mm adapter as John suggested. (first pic) Little dimples in the middle remind me more of lathe dead center tool used to machine those.

alanint · 01-26-2012, 03:33 PM

John is still right. This is a 4mm adapter, not .22 caliber....

Norme · 01-26-2012, 03:39 PM

Hi Joe, "Pistole Parabellum" by Görtz/Sturgess, (published, by the way, in your native Canada), devotes a huge amount of space, almost 80 pages, to the various manufacturers of sub-caliber training devices. Although it's hard to be sure, the one in your original picture looks closest to the Gomann design. Regards, Norm

Vlim · 01-26-2012, 07:10 PM

These conversion kits were usually indeed made for the 4mm M20 cartridge.

RWS also offered a similar barrel for a specially developed .22 centrefire round. This was basically a .22lr round (same dimensions), but with a center fire primer inserted into the case. This allowed the pistol to fire the round using the original (centered) firing pin.

Edward Tinker · 01-26-2012, 07:22 PM

Keep in mind that these can also be used to clean the gun without hurting the front muzzle (you remove the 4mm barrel and nut) or so I have been told and they look essentially the same to me (I have one of each).

Ed

01-25-2012, 11:14 AM	#1
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Strange Police P-08 Curious about these accessories and what their purpose may be? They look like some kind of gauges. All I can guess is that this is police P08 and that it has some unit markings but that is all. Guys let me pick your brains because that is what I am enjoying immensely. SIGP2101 Attached Thumbnails

01-25-2012, 11:33 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The muzzle fitting appears to be the sub-caliber device to convert to .22 rimfire. The curious thing is that the holster appears to be designed to fit the gun with the device attached. Last edited by alanint; 01-25-2012 at 03:05 PM.

01-25-2012, 11:38 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	According to: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html "LS.AI" is the unit mark from Allenstein Landjaegerei school. Book is Schmidtt's "Weapon Technology Teaching Book for the Police Officer" published in Berlin in 1928. So this could well be a complete training rig! There doesn't appear to be much of a hole in the barrel inserts. Could they be a group of blank firing attachments, perhaps tuned to create different malfunctions? Nice! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-25-2012, 01:36 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I beleive that the sub-caliber training device shown n the photo is actually 4mm in bore size and used special 4mm cartridges... The device is a single shot, and does not function the Luger for use with a magazine. Alanint, I think the angle of the photo makes it look like the holster is longer than it actually is... in other words, an optical illusion. With the sub-caliber device fitted that barrel length is almost 6 inches long... it would require a holster the same size as a Navy Luger to accomodate the assembled device and gun IMHO. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-25-2012, 05:11 PM	#7
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	I agree with the above replies. An outstanding assemblage!! __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

01-25-2012, 11:38 AM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Joe, It looks like a Gomann sub-caliber insert device. Sub caliber training devices were used extensively by the German Police, not only for reasons of economy, but also because of a shortage of ranges suitable for high powered ammunition. Regards, Norm

01-25-2012, 02:51 PM	#6
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	What would be other four metal thingies shown between holster and book? I am inclined to accept that those could be blank firing adopters as mentioned by Marc.

01-26-2012, 03:17 PM	#8
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Norme, do you referring to something like this? Second pic looks exactly like attachment inside the barrel of that P-08. That is .22 adapter indeed. Other 4 objects on that picture I have no idea what they may be for. They do not look like 4mm adapter as John suggested. (first pic) Little dimples in the middle remind me more of lathe dead center tool used to machine those. Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2012, 03:33 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	John is still right. This is a 4mm adapter, not .22 caliber....

01-26-2012, 03:39 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Joe, "Pistole Parabellum" by Görtz/Sturgess, (published, by the way, in your native Canada), devotes a huge amount of space, almost 80 pages, to the various manufacturers of sub-caliber training devices. Although it's hard to be sure, the one in your original picture looks closest to the Gomann design. Regards, Norm

01-26-2012, 07:10 PM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	These conversion kits were usually indeed made for the 4mm M20 cartridge. RWS also offered a similar barrel for a specially developed .22 centrefire round. This was basically a .22lr round (same dimensions), but with a center fire primer inserted into the case. This allowed the pistol to fire the round using the original (centered) firing pin. Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2012, 07:22 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	Keep in mind that these can also be used to clean the gun without hurting the front muzzle (you remove the 4mm barrel and nut) or so I have been told and they look essentially the same to me (I have one of each). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV