Jamming Luger

Vboy · 02-17-2006, 12:40 PM

I have tried to read all of the forum posts on jamming Lugers, specifically FTF. This seems to be a common problem. My shooter Luger alternates between jamming the tip of the round into the top of the chamber, failing to strip the next round from the mag, and actually working properly sometimes. This problem occurs with several different types of ammo and mags. I am reasonably sure that the recoil spring is too strong for today's ammo. Since I do not want to use hotter ammo, I have ordered the mainspring pack and a number of stronger mag springs from Wolff. I have had the same problem with an AMT pistol in .22 mag and the problem of incomplete cycling was solved by sticking to hotter ammo. Is there anything else I should try?

Thanks,

Vboy

Lugerdoc · 02-17-2006, 01:17 PM

VB, If only jams on feeding and the new springs fail to completely correct the problem, you might want to polish your feed ramp and the top rear of the chamber. If extraction jams, check you extractor, spring and ejector. TH PS: also check the inside of your mag release, to make sure that it is not worn, and not holding your mag high enough.

Vboy · 02-17-2006, 02:22 PM

Lugerdoc,

The problem is strictly with feeding, not with extraction. I have not done any polishing, as I have done, for example, with my FAL. These are old parts and should be well worn in. I considered the possibility that the mag latch was worn because when a mag is installed, there is a tiny bit of play up and down. But I suspect that this play is normal and that the mag is sitting high enough in the frame. I will be surprised if the problem doesn't stem from the recoil spring being too strong to allow the bolt to clear the rear of the mag and allow the round to pop up. Anyway, the springs are ordered and we will see.

Thanks,

Vboy

Johnny C. Kitchens · 02-17-2006, 11:49 PM

So far every Luger that I have had trouble with jamming, I cured with a better magazine and some thorough cleaning. The magazine deserves most of the credit...

Vboy · 02-18-2006, 09:50 AM

What makes a Luger magazine better? Are Meg-Gar mags the only new mags available today? Would you consider them better than the others?

Thanks,

Vboy

Frank · 02-18-2006, 08:27 PM

Vboy, on some occasions, I have found that the ammunition over-all length (OAL) has an effect on feeding problems. Winchester Ammo has about the same OAL and the original German Ammo. Remington is a little shorter. You might try a different brand of ammunitions!! Good Luck!

Johnny C. Kitchens · 02-18-2006, 10:44 PM

I had no luck with the Mec-Gar, but others here have. It might be worth a shot. I had trouble with my very first Luger. It jammed so much, I was sure I had bought a lemon. I read about getting a better magazine to improve things. I bought a Swiss magazine and it was like i bought a whole new gun. I could actually shoot it pretty reliably. After learning how to take the gun apart, I cleaned out many years of gunk out of various places in the gun and reliablity improved even more. Winchester ammo seems to be another improvement. If you want to ultimate, get a Mec-Gar mag and have GT Specialties perform his magic on it and you will have a magazine that will work. You will need a loading tool!!!

Vboy · 02-19-2006, 10:30 AM

My jams occurred with the Mec-Gar mags as well as with others. Among the brands of ammo I used was the Winchester white box from Walmart. I plan to experiment with stronger mag springs and different recoil springs from Wolff. Luger mags are the hardest to load I have encountered. I have a useful plastic loader that fits over the mag. This really helps.

Vboy

Vboy · 02-21-2006, 06:19 PM

Wolff got the replacement mag springs and recoil spring set to me very quickly. I am surprised to see that the replacement "weaker" recoil spring is longer than the one that came with my Luger and appears to be as robust. Please give me some tips on how to get this long spring back in place. This appears to be an almost impossible task without some tools or tricks.

Thanks,

Vboy

Vboy · 02-21-2006, 07:18 PM

I didn't see any way that I could get the "weaker" recoil spring from Wolff back in the pistol, so I took one coil off the original spring. With great difficulty, I was able to get this back in place. I will test this out after I have replaced the mag springs with stronger ones, also from Wolff.

Vboy

Lugerdoc · 02-22-2006, 08:53 AM

VB, See the excellent photo tutorial on recoil spring replacement in the technical info section of this website. Although I will admit that some experience and the proper tools, do help. TH

Vboy · 02-22-2006, 11:58 AM

Thanks, Lugerdoc. After posting my last message I looked at this tutorial. On my own I had already gotten the clipped original spring back in the gun and replaced one mag spring, not so easy because of the use of pins. I will try this combo out at the range ASAP. I am not terribly optimistic about being successful, in part because some posters have suggested that the kinds of jams I am having can be caused by a WEAK recoil spring. I don't understand how a weak recoil spring could cause the breechblock to fail to strip a round from the mag. I think the sign of a weak recoil spring is failure to go into battery. Please explain. On the other hand, I do not understand how an old recoil spring could get too strong. My guess is that in Germany after the pistol was reconditioned, the ammo used to test the firearm was a bit stronger than what we have here in the U.S. Since I don't want to use stronger ammo, I have elected to go for a weaker recoil spring.

Thanks,

Vboy

Vboy · 02-22-2006, 03:45 PM

I just got back from the range. After taking a coil off the recoil spring, the Luger fired seven mags worth without a jam. I had jams with two mags. First I fired two mags worth through the Mec-Gar mag with the replaced stronger spring. Perfect. But other Mec-Gars with their original springs performed just as well. So replacement of mag springs does not seem to be necessary, but it doesn't hurt. It is wonderful to know that my analysis of the problem was right and that the fix worked. Thanks to those who offered suggestions and information.

Vboy

stefanosg · 02-22-2006, 06:53 PM

You may also try a 125g bullet. It may not like the 115g you may be using.

Vboy · 02-22-2006, 07:24 PM

123gr Fiocchi didn't work any better than several 115gr rounds. When many months ago I tried a few rounds of +P, the takedown spring broke. I am very satisfied that the pistol now works. I did not see any signs that the toggle assembly was banging the back of the frame.

Vboy

stefanosg · 02-22-2006, 07:35 PM

Yeah, I'd stay away from the +P stuff with these older guns. Its also very corrosive.

MAGRIPA · 02-14-2007, 06:07 PM

I have byf Luger with all matching numbers and nazi marks. Well preserved barrel bluing and overall in excellent shape but definitely not $7K gun. I was using Winchester 115gr. ammo and rounds are always ejecting but loading new round is a problem. Sometimes round turns 180 degrees and get stuck like that.
I am definitely not an expert for Lugers so I will need some clarification regarding ammo. What will be the better choice? Faster or slower rounds?
Thanks to everybody for help

Drakejake · 02-14-2007, 06:41 PM

I happened to have fired my Luger last Sunday. Three shooters fired a total of about eight mags without a jam. The mags were mainly new Mec-Gars but also several older mags. Cutting a coil off the mainspring seems to have done the trick. I am still not sure how the mainspring became too stiff to fully cycle the old Luger.

Vboy/Drakejake

Sieger · 02-14-2007, 08:32 PM

Hi:

I'll explain why a weak recoil spring will jam a Luger. The toggel parts are very light and "bounce back" too fast to pick up a round off of the magazine.

I'm also shocked that your spring was too heavy. Usually, they are too light, causing the condition explained above.

I've found that a magazine with a heavy spring is usually the most reliable.

Sieger

Vlim · 02-15-2007, 03:46 AM

The sheer speed with which the toggle retracts, ejects the spent case, returns to battery and takes a fresh round with it is so blindingly fast on a luger, that any slight problem with any of the parts can cause feeding problems.

The art is to get all factors working together and this usually takes a mix of magazines, ammo, various small parts and springs.

My LP08 shooter doesn't particularly like MecGars, but works well with DDR made 1001 Extruded mags. Which my S/42 doesn't like. It, however, functions flawlessly with MecGars and Sellier & Bellot 124gr ammo. In fact, all my 9mm shooters like S&B which is cheap and plentiful over here.

My KNIL Dutch prefers a spiffier 115gr and it's own old-style magazine.

02-17-2006, 12:40 PM	#1
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jamming Luger I have tried to read all of the forum posts on jamming Lugers, specifically FTF. This seems to be a common problem. My shooter Luger alternates between jamming the tip of the round into the top of the chamber, failing to strip the next round from the mag, and actually working properly sometimes. This problem occurs with several different types of ammo and mags. I am reasonably sure that the recoil spring is too strong for today's ammo. Since I do not want to use hotter ammo, I have ordered the mainspring pack and a number of stronger mag springs from Wolff. I have had the same problem with an AMT pistol in .22 mag and the problem of incomplete cycling was solved by sticking to hotter ammo. Is there anything else I should try? Thanks, Vboy

02-17-2006, 01:17 PM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	VB, If only jams on feeding and the new springs fail to completely correct the problem, you might want to polish your feed ramp and the top rear of the chamber. If extraction jams, check you extractor, spring and ejector. TH PS: also check the inside of your mag release, to make sure that it is not worn, and not holding your mag high enough. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-17-2006, 11:49 PM	#4
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	So far every Luger that I have had trouble with jamming, I cured with a better magazine and some thorough cleaning. The magazine deserves most of the credit... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

02-18-2006, 10:44 PM	#7
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I had no luck with the Mec-Gar, but others here have. It might be worth a shot. I had trouble with my very first Luger. It jammed so much, I was sure I had bought a lemon. I read about getting a better magazine to improve things. I bought a Swiss magazine and it was like i bought a whole new gun. I could actually shoot it pretty reliably. After learning how to take the gun apart, I cleaned out many years of gunk out of various places in the gun and reliablity improved even more. Winchester ammo seems to be another improvement. If you want to ultimate, get a Mec-Gar mag and have GT Specialties perform his magic on it and you will have a magazine that will work. You will need a loading tool!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

02-21-2006, 06:19 PM	#9
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Replacement Springs from Wolff Wolff got the replacement mag springs and recoil spring set to me very quickly. I am surprised to see that the replacement "weaker" recoil spring is longer than the one that came with my Luger and appears to be as robust. Please give me some tips on how to get this long spring back in place. This appears to be an almost impossible task without some tools or tricks. Thanks, Vboy

02-17-2006, 02:22 PM	#3
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugerdoc, The problem is strictly with feeding, not with extraction. I have not done any polishing, as I have done, for example, with my FAL. These are old parts and should be well worn in. I considered the possibility that the mag latch was worn because when a mag is installed, there is a tiny bit of play up and down. But I suspect that this play is normal and that the mag is sitting high enough in the frame. I will be surprised if the problem doesn't stem from the recoil spring being too strong to allow the bolt to clear the rear of the mag and allow the round to pop up. Anyway, the springs are ordered and we will see. Thanks, Vboy

02-18-2006, 09:50 AM	#5
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What makes a Luger magazine better? Are Meg-Gar mags the only new mags available today? Would you consider them better than the others? Thanks, Vboy

02-18-2006, 08:27 PM	#6
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Vboy, on some occasions, I have found that the ammunition over-all length (OAL) has an effect on feeding problems. Winchester Ammo has about the same OAL and the original German Ammo. Remington is a little shorter. You might try a different brand of ammunitions!! Good Luck!

02-19-2006, 10:30 AM	#8
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My jams occurred with the Mec-Gar mags as well as with others. Among the brands of ammo I used was the Winchester white box from Walmart. I plan to experiment with stronger mag springs and different recoil springs from Wolff. Luger mags are the hardest to load I have encountered. I have a useful plastic loader that fits over the mag. This really helps. Vboy

02-21-2006, 07:18 PM	#10
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I didn't see any way that I could get the "weaker" recoil spring from Wolff back in the pistol, so I took one coil off the original spring. With great difficulty, I was able to get this back in place. I will test this out after I have replaced the mag springs with stronger ones, also from Wolff. Vboy

02-22-2006, 08:53 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	VB, See the excellent photo tutorial on recoil spring replacement in the technical info section of this website. Although I will admit that some experience and the proper tools, do help. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-22-2006, 11:58 AM	#12
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Lugerdoc. After posting my last message I looked at this tutorial. On my own I had already gotten the clipped original spring back in the gun and replaced one mag spring, not so easy because of the use of pins. I will try this combo out at the range ASAP. I am not terribly optimistic about being successful, in part because some posters have suggested that the kinds of jams I am having can be caused by a WEAK recoil spring. I don't understand how a weak recoil spring could cause the breechblock to fail to strip a round from the mag. I think the sign of a weak recoil spring is failure to go into battery. Please explain. On the other hand, I do not understand how an old recoil spring could get too strong. My guess is that in Germany after the pistol was reconditioned, the ammo used to test the firearm was a bit stronger than what we have here in the U.S. Since I don't want to use stronger ammo, I have elected to go for a weaker recoil spring. Thanks, Vboy

02-22-2006, 03:45 PM	#13
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How Sweet It Is! I just got back from the range. After taking a coil off the recoil spring, the Luger fired seven mags worth without a jam. I had jams with two mags. First I fired two mags worth through the Mec-Gar mag with the replaced stronger spring. Perfect. But other Mec-Gars with their original springs performed just as well. So replacement of mag springs does not seem to be necessary, but it doesn't hurt. It is wonderful to know that my analysis of the problem was right and that the fix worked. Thanks to those who offered suggestions and information. Vboy

02-22-2006, 06:53 PM	#14
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	You may also try a 125g bullet. It may not like the 115g you may be using.

02-22-2006, 07:24 PM	#15
Vboy User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	123gr Fiocchi didn't work any better than several 115gr rounds. When many months ago I tried a few rounds of +P, the takedown spring broke. I am very satisfied that the pistol now works. I did not see any signs that the toggle assembly was banging the back of the frame. Vboy

02-22-2006, 07:35 PM	#16
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Yeah, I'd stay away from the +P stuff with these older guns. Its also very corrosive.

02-14-2007, 06:07 PM	#17
MAGRIPA New User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have byf Luger with all matching numbers and nazi marks. Well preserved barrel bluing and overall in excellent shape but definitely not $7K gun. I was using Winchester 115gr. ammo and rounds are always ejecting but loading new round is a problem. Sometimes round turns 180 degrees and get stuck like that. I am definitely not an expert for Lugers so I will need some clarification regarding ammo. What will be the better choice? Faster or slower rounds? Thanks to everybody for help

02-14-2007, 06:41 PM	#18
Drakejake New User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I happened to have fired my Luger last Sunday. Three shooters fired a total of about eight mags without a jam. The mags were mainly new Mec-Gars but also several older mags. Cutting a coil off the mainspring seems to have done the trick. I am still not sure how the mainspring became too stiff to fully cycle the old Luger. Vboy/Drakejake

02-14-2007, 08:32 PM	#19
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Recoil Springs Hi: I'll explain why a weak recoil spring will jam a Luger. The toggel parts are very light and "bounce back" too fast to pick up a round off of the magazine. I'm also shocked that your spring was too heavy. Usually, they are too light, causing the condition explained above. I've found that a magazine with a heavy spring is usually the most reliable. Sieger

02-15-2007, 03:46 AM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,958 Times in 1,200 Posts	The sheer speed with which the toggle retracts, ejects the spent case, returns to battery and takes a fresh round with it is so blindingly fast on a luger, that any slight problem with any of the parts can cause feeding problems. The art is to get all factors working together and this usually takes a mix of magazines, ammo, various small parts and springs. My LP08 shooter doesn't particularly like MecGars, but works well with DDR made 1001 Extruded mags. Which my S/42 doesn't like. It, however, functions flawlessly with MecGars and Sellier & Bellot 124gr ammo. In fact, all my 9mm shooters like S&B which is cheap and plentiful over here. My KNIL Dutch prefers a spiffier 115gr and it's own old-style magazine.