KI. 1933

Tony S. · 01-06-2003, 10:44 AM

Okay, tell me what you think?
The gun appears to have been an Erfurt Artillery. The barrel has two Simson proofs as compared with the book "World of Lugers" by Costanzo; an Eagle (reference #68, page 90 from book) at the base on the right side and another small Eagle over a six at base top left. The numbers 8.82 with barrel alignment lines are present as well. But, it does not have a serial number on barrel??? (Why would they go through the trouble of marking everything, but yet, did not matched barrel to gun?) Also, according to Costanzo, the small eagles over the 6 were used by Simson in the 20s???. These eagles are the same as my unmarked Chamber Simson & Suhl. Could it have been left over parts? All other numbers match troughout the gun. The same #68 Eagle (same as Barrel) is also present on the left side of Breech Block. The Hold Open has the last two digits of serial number and small Eagle over a 6 as well. It also has, in several places to include right side of Receiver, a Crown with the letters RC under it (Erfurt Imperial Arsenal Rework). I have the gun with me for three days, then I have to make a decision. I included a picture of the Chamber. If more information is needed, please let me know.
Thanks, Tony

[img]confused.gif[/img]

MauserLugers · 01-06-2003, 02:44 PM

Hi Tony,
A year or so ago an article was written in "Auto Mag" (National Automatic Pistol Collector Association)--NAPCA--, so if you know a member and could get a copy it would be very worthwhile.

I visited with a few long time collectors about a year ago concerning the article in "Auto Mag" and the advice as I remember it on the KL 1933 went something like this. All the real ones were not over a 3 digit serial number and all the serial numbers were over sized (large). A lot of fakes are being made from Simson blank toggle examples, but the size and serial numbers are wrong.

What is your serial number and could you provide a picture of the serial number on the left receiver?

Tony S. · 01-06-2003, 04:41 PM

Bill,
The serial number is 527. I will try to post other pictures later.
Thanks, Tony [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Tony S. · 01-10-2003, 05:33 PM

MauserLuger,
Thanks for the info. After a lot of research and with the help of JCS and others, I have come to the conclusion that this gun is original. I also found its number listed in Weimar Lugers by JCS book. I am happy with it.
Thanks.

MIKE MORRIS · 08-24-2005, 09:11 AM

To all....... please check a post that I sent John Sabato on 8-23 showing scans of the possible use of KL. It's in a correspondence from Himmler outlining a man's service record. Hope this helps Mike Morris

MIKE MORRIS · 08-24-2005, 09:13 AM

I did'nt mention the scans are under " 1916 Erfurt "......... sorry. Mike

lew1 · 08-24-2005, 12:40 PM

Don't see the post you referenced.

01-06-2003, 10:44 AM	#1
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	KI. 1933 Okay, tell me what you think? The gun appears to have been an Erfurt Artillery. The barrel has two Simson proofs as compared with the book "World of Lugers" by Costanzo; an Eagle (reference #68, page 90 from book) at the base on the right side and another small Eagle over a six at base top left. The numbers 8.82 with barrel alignment lines are present as well. But, it does not have a serial number on barrel??? (Why would they go through the trouble of marking everything, but yet, did not matched barrel to gun?) Also, according to Costanzo, the small eagles over the 6 were used by Simson in the 20s???. These eagles are the same as my unmarked Chamber Simson & Suhl. Could it have been left over parts? All other numbers match troughout the gun. The same #68 Eagle (same as Barrel) is also present on the left side of Breech Block. The Hold Open has the last two digits of serial number and small Eagle over a 6 as well. It also has, in several places to include right side of Receiver, a Crown with the letters RC under it (Erfurt Imperial Arsenal Rework). I have the gun with me for three days, then I have to make a decision. I included a picture of the Chamber. If more information is needed, please let me know. Thanks, Tony [img]confused.gif[/img]

08-24-2005, 09:11 AM	#5
MIKE MORRIS User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BULVERDE, TEXAS Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To all....... please check a post that I sent John Sabato on 8-23 showing scans of the possible use of KL. It's in a correspondence from Himmler outlining a man's service record. Hope this helps Mike Morris __________________ MIKE MORRIS

08-24-2005, 12:40 PM	#7
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Don't see the post you referenced. __________________ charlie

01-06-2003, 02:44 PM	#2
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi Tony, A year or so ago an article was written in "Auto Mag" (National Automatic Pistol Collector Association)--NAPCA--, so if you know a member and could get a copy it would be very worthwhile. I visited with a few long time collectors about a year ago concerning the article in "Auto Mag" and the advice as I remember it on the KL 1933 went something like this. All the real ones were not over a 3 digit serial number and all the serial numbers were over sized (large). A lot of fakes are being made from Simson blank toggle examples, but the size and serial numbers are wrong. What is your serial number and could you provide a picture of the serial number on the left receiver?

01-06-2003, 04:41 PM	#3
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bill, The serial number is 527. I will try to post other pictures later. Thanks, Tony [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

01-10-2003, 05:33 PM	#4
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	MauserLuger, Thanks for the info. After a lot of research and with the help of JCS and others, I have come to the conclusion that this gun is original. I also found its number listed in Weimar Lugers by JCS book. I am happy with it. Thanks.

08-24-2005, 09:13 AM	#6
MIKE MORRIS User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BULVERDE, TEXAS Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I did'nt mention the scans are under " 1916 Erfurt "......... sorry. Mike __________________ MIKE MORRIS