Help needed to identify luger pistol

I would like to ask for help, as I am trying to identify a 9mm Parabellum luger pistol of the Portuguese royal navy.


The pistol has been in my family since the beginning of the century and I heard the following history about it: my great grand father was an admiral of the Portuguese navy during the last years of the Portuguese monarchy and the begining of the republic. He was in charge of an order of luger pistols for the royal navy and therefore this gun was sent to him as an experiment. In the meantime the monarchy ended in 1910 and the republicans cancelled the order of the guns with the royal crest on them, making this a unique pistol.


I found the Portuguese naval markings in the lugersforum website (Manufacturer Logo 4), but couldn't find the register (around 1910) of a 9mm Parabellum luger of the Portuguese royal navy in the production charts - I only found Portuguese guns in the 7.65 caliber. I have some pictures of the gun which I can send by e-mail.


(here is a sample - Dok)

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy01.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy02.jpg


I don't know if this history is correct and would thank for any help.


Best regards


Rodrigo Almeida




http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy01.jpg

Rodrigo, Since it appears from your first photo that the top of the Crown is missing, I suspect that your long 7.65mm receiver has been cut back to accomodate the short thread 9mm barrel. If this had been supplied as a 9mm by DWM, I would have expected the crest to be complete on a short threaded receiver and frame, as all the rest of the M1906/9mm pistols. Also in your photo #2, you can see that the FRONT of the barrel flange lines up with the end of the frame, rather than the REAR of the flange. This indicates to me a non-DWM rebarrel job. This may have been done by a Portugese arsenal; if so, the barrel will probably show some Portugese proofs such as a nine in a circle, KK over a number,ect. I would guess that the serial number of your pistol, falls in the accept range of the Royal Port.Navy 7.56mm pistols: 1 to about 5000. Where as the original RMP pistols in 9mm were only numbered from 1 to about 1000. This appears to me to be a cleaver fraud, but difficult to be sure from just a photo. Tom h

[Johnny Peppers]

Supposedly DWM had supplied approximately 800 of an order of 1000 of the 9mm pistols for the Portuguese Navy when the monarchy was overthrown. The crown over the anchor was replaced with an R.P. for the Republic of Portugal. Doug Smith imported some of these pistols a couple of years ago. I believe he had both the Crown/Anchor and R.P./Anchor. The pistols Doug had for sale were well used, but the pistol you have appears to be as new. Nice and rare piece.

Please disregard my previous comments. After a second look, It do look OK to me. Tom h.

[Dok]

of this Luger sent to me... HTH


http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy03.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy04.jpg


Dok




http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Navy04.jpg

We recently discussed Portugese Lugers here and there did not seem to be much response. I have 5 variations.[There is at least one more but only 50 so my collection will never be complete] I am not an authority but have researched the major books and saved magazine articles. Most seem to agree that contract was for 1000 1906 Navy models. When the chamber changed from crown anchor to Crown RP is a different matter. I have my 1906 crown anchor in front of as I write. I pronounce the pictured Luger to be correct and in better condition than mine. Wish I had the rig. My crown anchor is #125, John Walter reports #134, Mike Reese in Luger Tips reports # 287, and Lugers at Random reports #769. My crown RP is #639. Simpson's current list advertises RP #5xx. John Walter reports #993. Recently I learned of RP # 241. I will not judge who is the greater expert. However 2 major Luger people who are considered of some authority disagree on the authenticity of RP #241. One envolved with the estate purchase says that it is authentic and correct. The other says that it is fake and put to gether on a 1906 commercial frame. What do you guys think??? My reasearch indicates these were issued with a script 9mm wood base on the clips. The Portugese army of the day were .30cal. GT--I am going to need a couple more 9mm script wood bottoms---Oh, that should stir the pot!!! The Luger and Rig pictured is nice. I envy it. Anyone know where I can get a holster. PS Barrels are numbered to both my Lugers. I am farily confident that my 2 Lugers are authentic and correct. Obviously no refinish and I got them kind of first hand after they came to the U.S.

[John Sabato]

Welcome to the Luger forum and thank you for sharing the photos of your prized possession with us...


regards,


John Sabato

[lugerholsterrepair]

Great information Art and super photo's Rodrigo! That looks like a pistol in about as good a condition as they get. And so rare! I would like to see Rodrigo come back with some more information, Serial, proofs etc.


On another subject Rodrigo, have you ever attempted to preserve the finish? Oil or such? Jerry Burney

Hey Art, lets go shooting!


Rodrigo, beautiful gun!!


Art, I think you can have your own museum!


Ed

[Steve Lempitski]

Rodrigo---It would really be of interst if you can share the serial number or at least the range for example; 2xx. Thank you.