Choosing .30 Luger ammo

[southriv]

I've acquired some .30 luger over the last 6 months with the intention of running some though my new Mauser and some on a very limited basis though my Swiss lugers. I went shopping for price and got the following : 250 rnds of Finnish Lapua 93 gr, 200 rnds of Winchester 93 gr. and 200 new Winchester brass.

I'm setting up a new reloading area and will be using the new brass and the (soon to be) used brass on a Dillon 550. I've avoided Fiocchi as I've heard the walls are too thin to re-crimp. Any one else have any comment on that? Also, any thoughts on the suitability/non-suitability of the ammo I have on hand for new or collector guns.

Last, the only reloading data I've found is in the Lyman manual. I want to stay with the 93 gr FMJ. As with reloading I've done in the past for collector guns, I plan to stick with the suggested starting grains (in either Bullseye or Unique - the two powders I'm most familiar with).

Any thoughts or suggestions, experiences etc. would be appreciated & welcome.

Thanks, Bob

[southriv]

Rick,

Thanks for the reply & adding some good stuff to my knowledge base. I'm exited about shooting .30 as almost everyone (once they get past the price/availability issues) thinks it's great fun to shoot.

Bob

[Luke]

Rick -

You mention Fiocchi not operating one of your "resprung" guns. Is that a Luger in which you have installed a weaker mainspring?

I have a standard 1920 DWM 7.65mm, and it has never cycled properly, but I am pretty sure that it still has the original mainspring. I have considered changing it out for a weaker spring, but have procrastinated.

Luke

[Steve Richards]

Here is a copy of an older post of mine that fits in here:

I found a supplier of .30 Luger ammunition that works flawlessly in my 1906 and 1970's Mauser Parabelum. The loader opperates under the name of Circled Wagons' Ammo. His name is Richard Specht. E-Mail: ammoman2@msn.com
Phone 503-390-9192
Fax 503-390-9144

They are 95gr TMJ/RN and the box says they are loaded to 1330 FPS. He showed me the .30 barrel that he had made for a Glock to use as a test gun so I would think that is the velocity from a short barrel.

He said that he can ship UPS to a street addres but cannot ship to a PO Box. The price that I paid was $85.00 for 250 rounds when I went to his house.

The standard disclaimer of I have no ties with him other than as a customer apply. Perhaps he can be added to the links and resources list? This ammo is a bit difficult to find and especially in a fairly hot load. Someone with an old leaf spring gun or one with a weak mainspring may want to stick to Fiochi.

The email may have changed as that one is a couple of years old but give it a try. I doubt if the phone and fax numbers have changed.

[MarkC]

Bob,

Here is some ballistic information from an old post that I did on reloading .30 Luger ammo

Mark

As it turns out I have been using my CED Millenium chronograph in working up some loads so you might find this data of interest. I shoot 15 to 30 rounds when developing a load, more than most people do because I find 5 shots not enough to fully test my reloads. The data gathered is 10' from the muzzle shooting indoors using the infrared lights in 70 degree air temperature.

I used brand new Winchester brass with Winchester small pistol primers and Hornady .30 cal. Luger 93 grain .308 soft point RN bullets. The heads were seated to the crimping groove. I use a dillon 650 press and seat and crimp in two different stages.

Two guns were used to test my loads, a 1920's commercial with standard length barrel (gun was rebarrelled some time ago with a German barrel)and an Interarms "Mauser" 1970's vintage with a six inch barrel. I test for shot to shot consistancy since I believe this makes the load consistant for accuracy.

Here are the results:

Best load
4.5 grains of 231
30 rounds through the commercial gun with an average of 1,160fps and a standard deviation of 6, the extreme spread was 35!

20 rounds through the 6" barrel with an average of 1,214fps, a standard deviation of 11 and extreme spread of 41.

The commercial gun shot consistantly better than the Mauser 6" in terms of std and es.

Another good load was 4.7 grains of 231 with the commercial gun getting 1,189 fps a std of 6 and es of 37. A little faster than the 4.5 grains and equal in consistancy, 30 shots fired.

The 6" with 20 rounds yielded 1,254fps average, std of 11 and 46 es.

To make it more interesting I tested two commercial brands of ammo and here is what I got.

Fiocci Ammo
30 rounds fired in the commercial gun with 1,028fps average, a standard deviation of 26 and extreme spread of 123. My reloads are much better!

Lapua
29 shots fired in the commercial gun with 1,090fps average, a standard deviation of 13 and extreme spread of 52 much better than the Fiocci but still not as good as my reloads!

[southriv]

Hey Marc,

Interesting results. From your tests, it would appear that even the starting points from the Lyman book tables would yield better results than the fiocchi. Also interesting that the Lapua outperformed (though not by much) the fiocchi.

My long term ( and hopefully shorter) goal is to try the DWM toggle off my shooter on one of my Swiss lugers. If it passes head space muster with go/no-guages, I'll give it a try. Longer range is to do basically as you have done - I want to put a 6" barrel on a 1920 commercial and also consider an Interams Mauser. I have one, but in 9mm. A set of repro 1929 grips from Tom Heller helped that one out considerably.

BTW, I'm from the "state" of Western MA. I assume you're from east. Do you know ehen the next regional shows are ? (i.e, big E, Wilmington, Marlboro, etc.)


Take it easy, Bob

[Hugh]

Bob,

Here are some 30 Luger loads that I worked up a while back:

These loads were not tested for accuracy, only for velocity and gun functioning. Five shots of each load were fired. Velocities were taken 15 ft from the muzzle with a PAC chronograph. The 60 gr Gold Dot & 85 gr XTP were .312 bullets resized to .3095. The 85 gr Sierra & 93 gr Hornady bullets were .308. Resized cases miked .385 at the base; fired cases miked .388-.389 at the base.
WARNING: These loads appeared to be safe in my guns (they did not blow up!) However, you use them at your own risk.

BULLET-------POWDER---CHARGE---AVG MV--BBL LGTH

60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.5 gr------1613------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1726------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1848------4 3/4
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1902------6
60 gr GD-----Blue Dot---9.0 gr------1538------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------8.5 gr------1535------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------9.0 gr------1667------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Unique-----6.0 gr------1293------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Unique-----6.5 gr------1442------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-HS-7-------7.5 gr------1286------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1280------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1304------4 3/4
85 gr XTP----Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1268------3 7/8
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1304------3 7/8
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1330------4 3/4
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1542------6
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1300------3 7/8
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1343------4 3/4
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.4 gr------1362------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------6.5 gr------1211------3 7/8
93 gr Horn---Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1292------6
93 gr Horn---SR 4756----5.6 gr------1343------6

These loads did not cycle the action:

60 gr GD-----Red Dot----5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Green Dot--5.5 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HP-38------5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----W 231------5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----4756-------6.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------8.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.5 gr----------------6
60 gr GD-----Blue Dot---9.0 gr----------------6
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------9.0 gr----------------6
85 gr Sierra-HS-7-------7.5 gr------1288------6
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1322------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------7.0 gr------1211------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------7.5 gr------1396------6
93 gr Horn---4756-------5.5 gr------1245------6
93 gr Horn---HP-38------4.0 gr------1057------6
93 gr Horn---Red Dot----4.3 gr------1230------6
93 gr Horn---Green Dot--4.7 gr------1260------6
93 gr Horn---Blue Dot---7.0 gr------1218------6

[southriv]

Hugh,

Excellent chart with lots of food for thought. Can I ask what you were using for cases? The case expansion looks consistant with some recent tests I was doing with commercial 9mm for some extractor issues (another story).

Bob

[Hugh]

Bob,

Cases were new WW brass. I bought about 2000 on ebay a couple years ago dirt cheap!

[MarkC]

Bob,

I'm not sure when the next show is but I try to make the W. Springfield show in the fall, the drive is a PIA! I am amost always at the Marlboro show since it is close. I've pulled a few "keepers" out of there in the past.

I usually get a post card from the promoter a few weeks before the upcomming shows.

Mark