Tale of Two Malfunctioning Lugers, actually three Lugers.

gunzilla · 05-23-2004, 07:26 PM

I have a DWM/mongrel Luger and a friend has a DWM 1920 rework that is all matching, at least numbered so. My mismatched pistole, which is at least from four different 08's has developed a problem where it will not fire the second round. After maually loading the first round, firing, and then trying to touch off the second right the gun will not fire, regardsless of hard I squeeze the trigger. Comparing it to another Luger I have, a S/42, the only difference I can see is the sear bar on the earlier piece is flat at the end and the newer Luger sear bar is round. It seemed to make sense that more material there would result in a more positve firing pin release since there would be less movement of all parts to fire the gun. I added some weld material to my sear bar and and now it will not fire on the first, manually loaded round. I'm thinking I may added to much material and now there is not enough movement to allow the gun to ****. Any thoughts out there? Do I have to whittle this piece down until there is enough movement to allow it to ****? Am I looking in the right area to resolve the original problem? I have tried swapping parts but the fit isn't very good between the two pieces and I don't want to modify anything just to test this out. (The third Luger problem is the same, fires on the first manually loaded but not on the seconed semi automatically loaded round.)
My friends Luger has poor extraction and also a very light trigger that sometimes doubles. I'm thinking the sear engagement at the fring pin is so delicate that the recoil and the presence of a finger on the trigger touch off the second round. Close inspection of the sear bar and the firing pin seems to indicate that there is only very slight engagement at one corner of the fp. I am going to polish his chamber a bit to see if that helps with the extraction and also check the strength of the extractor spring. ( I did read the the thread about the mafunctioning Luger which has a similar extraction issues). Any help or advice on these issues?
Thanks in advance,
'Zilla

Johnny C. Kitchens · 05-23-2004, 11:00 PM

The round part, is spring loaded and should move inside the searbar. Maybe yours is stuck. When you release the trigger it should move forward again, ready for the next shot. If it is sticking, it may not move forward and allow the next shot. I suppose the gun could not ****, if it is stuck in the forward position...

gunzilla · 05-24-2004, 10:22 AM

Thanks Johnny, I'll check that out.
Zilla

gunzilla · 05-25-2004, 12:09 AM

Tonight I had a chance to look at my friends Luger. Another friend had carefully stoned the firing pin sear and that seemed to correc the doubling problem. However, it still fails to extract sometimes. While inspecting the fired cases and the chamber, I can see evidence of a ring about .18" in front of the rifling. This is also evident in a 1938 S/42 that I have and another 1910 Luger in a local gun shop. My Mongrel does not have it. The ring is easily felt with a toothpick and a corresponding ring shows up in the fired brass. Is this feature designed in and intentional? Does it have something to do with delaying extraction until the pressures have dropped in the barrel? Thanks for your collective comments.

John Sabato · 05-25-2004, 10:27 AM

This ring is an intentional part of the chamber design... I don't have much time at the moment, but if you do some searches on the forums for the word "stepped" or "Chamber" you should find some discussion and an extract of the chamber blueprint which will provide all the info you are seeking.

The original chamber was machined as a stepped cylinder rather than tapered. I presume for ease in manufacturing. Modern chambers no longer use this technique and more closely folow the actual cartridge design... in this case - tapered.

I hope this has been helpful.

gunzilla · 05-25-2004, 07:21 PM

Thanks very much for the info and yes, this helps. I was going to suggest to my friend that the ring be polished out to help with hs extraction problem. I still believe however that his chamber does need to be polished a bit since the brass has what looks like it has been slightly touched with emery paper in some spots when it is ejected.
Zilla

05-23-2004, 07:26 PM	#1
gunzilla User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tale of Two Malfunctioning Lugers, actually three Lugers. I have a DWM/mongrel Luger and a friend has a DWM 1920 rework that is all matching, at least numbered so. My mismatched pistole, which is at least from four different 08's has developed a problem where it will not fire the second round. After maually loading the first round, firing, and then trying to touch off the second right the gun will not fire, regardsless of hard I squeeze the trigger. Comparing it to another Luger I have, a S/42, the only difference I can see is the sear bar on the earlier piece is flat at the end and the newer Luger sear bar is round. It seemed to make sense that more material there would result in a more positve firing pin release since there would be less movement of all parts to fire the gun. I added some weld material to my sear bar and and now it will not fire on the first, manually loaded round. I'm thinking I may added to much material and now there is not enough movement to allow the gun to **. Any thoughts out there? Do I have to whittle this piece down until there is enough movement to allow it to **? Am I looking in the right area to resolve the original problem? I have tried swapping parts but the fit isn't very good between the two pieces and I don't want to modify anything just to test this out. (The third Luger problem is the same, fires on the first manually loaded but not on the seconed semi automatically loaded round.) My friends Luger has poor extraction and also a very light trigger that sometimes doubles. I'm thinking the sear engagement at the fring pin is so delicate that the recoil and the presence of a finger on the trigger touch off the second round. Close inspection of the sear bar and the firing pin seems to indicate that there is only very slight engagement at one corner of the fp. I am going to polish his chamber a bit to see if that helps with the extraction and also check the strength of the extractor spring. ( I did read the the thread about the mafunctioning Luger which has a similar extraction issues). Any help or advice on these issues? Thanks in advance, 'Zilla

05-23-2004, 11:00 PM	#2
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	The round part, is spring loaded and should move inside the searbar. Maybe yours is stuck. When you release the trigger it should move forward again, ready for the next shot. If it is sticking, it may not move forward and allow the next shot. I suppose the gun could not ****, if it is stuck in the forward position... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

05-25-2004, 10:27 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	This ring is an intentional part of the chamber design... I don't have much time at the moment, but if you do some searches on the forums for the word "stepped" or "Chamber" you should find some discussion and an extract of the chamber blueprint which will provide all the info you are seeking. The original chamber was machined as a stepped cylinder rather than tapered. I presume for ease in manufacturing. Modern chambers no longer use this technique and more closely folow the actual cartridge design... in this case - tapered. I hope this has been helpful. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-24-2004, 10:22 AM	#3
gunzilla User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Johnny, I'll check that out. Zilla

05-25-2004, 12:09 AM	#4
gunzilla User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tonight I had a chance to look at my friends Luger. Another friend had carefully stoned the firing pin sear and that seemed to correc the doubling problem. However, it still fails to extract sometimes. While inspecting the fired cases and the chamber, I can see evidence of a ring about .18" in front of the rifling. This is also evident in a 1938 S/42 that I have and another 1910 Luger in a local gun shop. My Mongrel does not have it. The ring is easily felt with a toothpick and a corresponding ring shows up in the fired brass. Is this feature designed in and intentional? Does it have something to do with delaying extraction until the pressures have dropped in the barrel? Thanks for your collective comments.

05-25-2004, 07:21 PM	#6
gunzilla User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks very much for the info and yes, this helps. I was going to suggest to my friend that the ring be polished out to help with hs extraction problem. I still believe however that his chamber does need to be polished a bit since the brass has what looks like it has been slightly touched with emery paper in some spots when it is ejected. Zilla