Luger 45 ACP Project - Page 8

G.T. · 07-11-2018, 10:31 AM

Hi Eugene, A long time ago, I was trying to line up fabrication shops to make a magazine shell similar to the fxo type of mag tube! I noticed some mags had a lot of washboard chatter which sometimes occurs when metal is drawn thru a die with out sufficient lube??? It got me to thinking?
At the time, I did contact some aerospace companies that had the capabilities to make what I wanted, and that was a, "cold drawn, formed tube" shape, that was a near net part, less the machining and milling process for fit and function.
Cut off to length, machine top profile, follower slot and bottom radius reliefs if required, etc.?
The cost was reasonable, but the minimum was approx. 25 hundred feet, probably in 6' lengths, 4130 material, maybe 4140?.. Anyway, what stopped me, is I wanted a swaged feed lip area to make them more robust and thicker at the top, and this technology was not found at my level of search.. So, I shelved the project, but never forgot about the tubing... Maybe this will help you plan, maybe not.. but it was the path I traveled for awhile... best to all, til...lat'r....GT...

DonVoigt · 07-11-2018, 10:38 AM

Eugene,
My point on "need" was that in the $5k range the market is quite small; so your sales volume expectation may be optimistic.

I did not "need" #20 either, but I wanted it and like it a lot!

It is great that some folks ordered two, congrats.

Edward Tinker · 07-11-2018, 11:44 AM

Delegation - I fully realize it is hard to do.

But, you've needed to hire a journeyman for years - take care of the bluing, the parts requests - phone calls, email and then you supervise and not try to do everything.

'Perfection' has given you a poor reputation Eugene. Do a google search on yourself. Is that the way to get guns sold? You are 8 months behind on 1907 sales - promised and paid by many folks, so saying you are a couple days behind - well, where are the other 7 months?

You've shipped the vast majority of loose mags? if you are saying you have 20 mags sitting around because you want a new batch made - I would bet a phone call to half the people would say, I'll take my completed 1907 and the 3 mags promised.

I fully realize that you hate dealing with on-going problems, but some of these problems you make yourself and then the fun is gone and its a chore. But, delegation, in our line of work, its needed and you simply have to hire someone. In the long run, you'll make a lot more money, and a lot less headaches.

2bnag · 07-11-2018, 03:29 PM

Eugene, if you get in a bind you could always auction serial number 1. Make yourself another with serial number LX01. By the way, how do you pronounce your last name?

G.T. · 07-11-2018, 03:51 PM

Hi Eugene! I'd take mine with the less quality mags! I will purchase (a couple of!) the better quality mags when they become available?... Let me know... best to you, til...lat'r...….GT......

rammercmc · 07-11-2018, 03:58 PM

Eugene,

having trouble getting mags shouldn't keep you from finishing up the lugers you have deposits on.

Your failure to sell me the baby you made for yourself tells me my pistol is on the back burner ----- how hard would it have been to say heh Rick, send me the balance and I will ship you mine and knock out another to keep for myself. Maybe you need to put your customers NEEDS ahead of yours for a change.

We all appreciate the trouble you took on to get this project off the ground. You also need to remember 5 - 7 thousand is a lot of money to a working stiff or a retired gent on fixed income. Then again we are probably not the customers you were hoping for.

I collect a lot of things besides guns. Pocket watches , watch tools, antique outboards, antique machine tools, some of which are real pricey. I happen to own a Goyen OT lathe , ck out Shuter Goyen. You talk about expensive -----

Most recently I have been picking up a few motorcycles. Bought a Big Dog Chopper for 5,000 a 30,000 bike. I ride it a couple times a week, GREAT FUN for the money. When and If I get my Baby I will probably shoot it a few times and then put it up with my other Lugers, not much FUN in that, especially for the MONEY !!!!!Certainly pride in ownership but only a few will ever appreciate what it is.

sheepherder · 07-11-2018, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

At 7K I can get some profit, so i can draw a salary after of 2 years of no profit.,
at 6K I am paying for shop costs and not much else.

If you charge $10,000 per standard 1907, then you won't need to sell as many to show a profit!

Lyn Islaub · 07-12-2018, 07:17 PM

Gosh Eugene.
As long as you're wishing, I'll wish along with you. "I wish the .45 call 1907 Luger pistol I ordered from you in August 2017 was completed and in my safe."
Wonder if that wish will come true before the one year anniversary of my order?
Lyn

2bnag · 07-15-2018, 05:56 PM

Eugene:
How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date?

Ben M. · 07-18-2018, 10:47 AM

Eugene:
How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
better to ask : how many delivered to customers to date?

2bnag · 07-19-2018, 05:24 PM

He's not going to answer either one...

2bnag · 08-01-2018, 11:46 PM

I wonder if he got some more magazines made.

LugerMan.com · 08-03-2018, 12:19 PM

We tested a new material for mags,
And we trying to simplify the process a bit,
To take out several manual operations.
As soon as fixtures are done will be cutting more mags.
Mean while we prepared 6 more guns for shipping.
We got another 10 to go from 2017 lot of guns.

G.T. · 08-03-2018, 03:12 PM

4130 or 4140? ….. just guessing! ….GT....

sheepherder · 08-03-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

4130 or 4140? ….. just guessing! ….GT....

Those are carbon steel. Aren't Eugene's magazines stainless???

LugerMan.com · 08-03-2018, 03:37 PM

Wrong.
17-7
Other materials proven to be unstable during heat treatment

G.T. · 08-03-2018, 03:55 PM

It appears that it will do everything you require... material is a bit pricy, and looks like the secondary opp's are expensive and a bit complicated as well... but, when done, it will be a magazine they will dig up a thousand years from now, and it will look as new?...

…. best to all, til....lat'r.....GT.....

G.T. · 08-03-2018, 03:58 PM

Yes, but they would be adequate in my mind for production ease and cost effectiveness, and heat treat?? Yet, by far, probably not the best choice... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...

LugerMan.com · 08-03-2018, 03:59 PM

Yes, they do not need oil deep to harden,
17-7 is very stable and air cooled on hardening.

Rick W. · 08-04-2018, 12:12 AM

L.M.

I have a deep appreciation for actual expertise, thanks for sharing some of yours.

Not many would take on such a project as the 45 Luger, just so much work of all kinds required, my congratulations on your efforts as if you really needed it.....

07-11-2018, 10:31 AM	#141
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	magazines! Hi Eugene, A long time ago, I was trying to line up fabrication shops to make a magazine shell similar to the fxo type of mag tube! I noticed some mags had a lot of washboard chatter which sometimes occurs when metal is drawn thru a die with out sufficient lube??? It got me to thinking? At the time, I did contact some aerospace companies that had the capabilities to make what I wanted, and that was a, "cold drawn, formed tube" shape, that was a near net part, less the machining and milling process for fit and function. Cut off to length, machine top profile, follower slot and bottom radius reliefs if required, etc.? The cost was reasonable, but the minimum was approx. 25 hundred feet, probably in 6' lengths, 4130 material, maybe 4140?.. Anyway, what stopped me, is I wanted a swaged feed lip area to make them more robust and thicker at the top, and this technology was not found at my level of search.. So, I shelved the project, but never forgot about the tubing... Maybe this will help you plan, maybe not.. but it was the path I traveled for awhile... best to all, til...lat'r....GT...

07-11-2018, 10:38 AM	#142
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Eugene, My point on "need" was that in the $5k range the market is quite small; so your sales volume expectation may be optimistic. I did not "need" #20 either, but I wanted it and like it a lot! It is great that some folks ordered two, congrats. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-11-2018, 03:51 PM	#145
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	mag issue! Hi Eugene! I'd take mine with the less quality mags! I will purchase (a couple of!) the better quality mags when they become available?... Let me know... best to you, til...lat'r...….GT......

08-03-2018, 12:19 PM	#153
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Magazines We tested a new material for mags, And we trying to simplify the process a bit, To take out several manual operations. As soon as fixtures are done will be cutting more mags. Mean while we prepared 6 more guns for shipping. We got another 10 to go from 2017 lot of guns. __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

08-03-2018, 03:12 PM	#154
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	mag material? 4130 or 4140? ….. just guessing! ….GT....

07-11-2018, 11:44 AM	#143
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,031 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Delegation - I fully realize it is hard to do. But, you've needed to hire a journeyman for years - take care of the bluing, the parts requests - phone calls, email and then you supervise and not try to do everything. 'Perfection' has given you a poor reputation Eugene. Do a google search on yourself. Is that the way to get guns sold? You are 8 months behind on 1907 sales - promised and paid by many folks, so saying you are a couple days behind - well, where are the other 7 months? You've shipped the vast majority of loose mags? if you are saying you have 20 mags sitting around because you want a new batch made - I would bet a phone call to half the people would say, I'll take my completed 1907 and the 3 mags promised. I fully realize that you hate dealing with on-going problems, but some of these problems you make yourself and then the fun is gone and its a chore. But, delegation, in our line of work, its needed and you simply have to hire someone. In the long run, you'll make a lot more money, and a lot less headaches.

07-11-2018, 03:29 PM	#144
2bnag User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Eugene, if you get in a bind you could always auction serial number 1. Make yourself another with serial number LX01. By the way, how do you pronounce your last name?

07-11-2018, 03:58 PM	#146
rammercmc User Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Eugene, having trouble getting mags shouldn't keep you from finishing up the lugers you have deposits on. Your failure to sell me the baby you made for yourself tells me my pistol is on the back burner ----- how hard would it have been to say heh Rick, send me the balance and I will ship you mine and knock out another to keep for myself. Maybe you need to put your customers NEEDS ahead of yours for a change. We all appreciate the trouble you took on to get this project off the ground. You also need to remember 5 - 7 thousand is a lot of money to a working stiff or a retired gent on fixed income. Then again we are probably not the customers you were hoping for. I collect a lot of things besides guns. Pocket watches , watch tools, antique outboards, antique machine tools, some of which are real pricey. I happen to own a Goyen OT lathe , ck out Shuter Goyen. You talk about expensive ----- Most recently I have been picking up a few motorcycles. Bought a Big Dog Chopper for 5,000 a 30,000 bike. I ride it a couple times a week, GREAT FUN for the money. When and If I get my Baby I will probably shoot it a few times and then put it up with my other Lugers, not much FUN in that, especially for the MONEY !!!!!Certainly pride in ownership but only a few will ever appreciate what it is.

07-12-2018, 07:17 PM	#148
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Gosh Eugene. As long as you're wishing, I'll wish along with you. "I wish the .45 call 1907 Luger pistol I ordered from you in August 2017 was completed and in my safe." Wonder if that wish will come true before the one year anniversary of my order? Lyn

07-15-2018, 05:56 PM	#149
2bnag User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Eugene: How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date?

07-18-2018, 10:47 AM	#150
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	Eugene: How many 45 Lugers have you completed to date? --------------------------------------------------------------------- better to ask : how many delivered to customers to date?

07-19-2018, 05:24 PM	#151
2bnag User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	He's not going to answer either one...

08-01-2018, 11:46 PM	#152
2bnag User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I wonder if he got some more magazines made.

08-03-2018, 03:37 PM	#156
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Wrong. 17-7 Other materials proven to be unstable during heat treatment __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

08-03-2018, 03:55 PM	#157
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	looks like a good choice! It appears that it will do everything you require... material is a bit pricy, and looks like the secondary opp's are expensive and a bit complicated as well... but, when done, it will be a magazine they will dig up a thousand years from now, and it will look as new?...…. best to all, til....lat'r.....GT.....

08-03-2018, 03:58 PM	#158
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Hi Rich! Yes, but they would be adequate in my mind for production ease and cost effectiveness, and heat treat?? Yet, by far, probably not the best choice... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...

08-03-2018, 03:59 PM	#159
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Yes, they do not need oil deep to harden, 17-7 is very stable and air cooled on hardening. __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

08-04-2018, 12:12 AM	#160
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	L.M. I have a deep appreciation for actual expertise, thanks for sharing some of yours. Not many would take on such a project as the 45 Luger, just so much work of all kinds required, my congratulations on your efforts as if you really needed it.....