1902 fat barrel discovered - Page 4

alvin · 01-30-2010, 11:59 PM

Wayne -- How much it cost to do this, if not a secret?

maddog350gt · 01-31-2010, 12:34 AM

Wayne;

It looks great! I am interested in the getting in contact with your restorer, I have already sent the Cartridge Counter to Gale Morgan but I have another 1900 test eagle that I would like to get restored. If you can forward me his contact information on a private message I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Bob M.

cma22inc · 01-31-2010, 12:51 AM

Thanks so much for posting the photos.

I agree with Ron a prime restore.

Another piece of history saved.

wayne8661 · 01-31-2010, 11:39 AM

Okay I am kind of uncomfortable with giving a price But in this case I would like to tell you guys so you can see how reasonable Ken is. He charged me $565.00 to do my pistol. That is unbelievable. And he offered me a 15 dollar discount to pay with cash.

Ken Karstead
41 Linden Ave,
Lake Forest Illinois 60045
847-234-0441

Ken did my pistol for a more than reasonable price and he did it in a reasonable time. But I do know that he has about 5 lugers to be done so the wait may be a bit longer than mine was.

Ron Wood · 01-31-2010, 12:40 PM

Talk about return on investment! You now have a piece that is easily worth more than ten times what you have in it. Wow! Could you please buy a couple of lottery tickets for me?

Anyone with that kind of good fortune has got to be a lightning rod for more good stuff.

alvin · 01-31-2010, 08:16 PM

Thanks Wayne for the info. The restoration charge is much lower than I expected!!

I visited book store today and The Official Gun Digest Book of Guns & Prices 2009 (the best gun price guide IMHO) says only a few hundred fat barrels were made, excellent fat barrel goes $12K. There is even smaller variation called "Cartidge Counter", only 50 were made.

wayne8661 · 01-31-2010, 10:06 PM

I believe about 600 of the AE Fat barrels were made. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Does anyone have any idea how many still survive?

Jan C Still · 02-01-2010, 09:11 PM

Wayne
Beautiful restoration of your 1902 AE, sn 23100, at a bargain price.

When Imperial Lugers was published, over 20 years ago,
it was estimated that 860 1902 AE were manufactured. This estimate was based on analysis of 84 reported serial numbers (page 11).
Jan

wayne8661 · 02-01-2010, 09:30 PM

Mr Still, Is there any estimate on how many survived?

Douglas Jr. · 02-02-2010, 10:15 AM

As I said on the other forum. it was an outstanding work done by Ken. Hats off to him!
The minor issues reported can easily be fixed. The worst part is over and now you have a rare Luger to display.

Thanks for showing the "before and after" process.

Douglas

cirelaw · 07-29-2012, 03:07 PM

What is the process referred to as 'parkerzed' Ive never heard of it? In any event this looks like a job for Dr Ted! Eric

guns3545 · 07-29-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What is the process referred to as 'parkerzed' Ive never heard of it? In any event this looks like a job for Dr Ted! Eric

Eric,

Here you go, courtesy of Wkipedia:

Parkerizing, bonderizing, phosphating, or phosphatizing is a method of protecting a steel surface from corrosion and increasing its resistance to wear through the application of an electrochemical phosphate conversion coating. Parkerizing is usually considered to be an improved zinc or manganese phosphating process, and not to be an improved iron phosphating process, although some use the term parkerizing as a generic term for applying phosphating (or phosphatizing) coatings that does include the iron phosphating process.

Parkerizing is commonly used on firearms as a more effective alternative to bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating that was developed earlier. It's also used extensively on automobiles to protect unfinished metal parts from corrosion.

Hope this helps,

John

cirelaw · 07-29-2012, 04:20 PM

Thanks John, a GREAT explanation!

CJS57 · 07-30-2012, 08:51 AM

"bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating". Do you mean at the molecular level? Because all the bluing I have ever seen or done is just dunking the part into a boiling solution with certain chemical salts in it. No electricity is applied like is done with say nickel plating.

There are also other bluing methods like rust bluing which is a controled rusting process and carbonia bluing which is done solely with heat. Again, no electriciy. Not trying to be picky here! Just to clarify.

cirelaw · 07-30-2012, 03:37 PM

If only I could find a ratty Catridge Counter!! You deserve it for sharing it, Eric Esq

Short Round · 08-09-2012, 03:23 PM

Wow, this thread is great. I always cringe at ruined guns even the bubba's $79 Mosin nagant in a plastic stock.

What was salvaged with that restoration is indeed a joyous moment to counteract all those thousands of bubba guns out there.

cirelaw · 08-09-2012, 04:17 PM

A little Legal. Do he have a duty to inform a perspective purchaser of all it went through? Lets see who gets this one right, Villanova Law 1981!

alanint · 08-09-2012, 05:00 PM

Unlike an automobile or home, I don't believe there are any legal disclosure statutes surrounding collector guns, unless you represent the piece as something that it is not, which might constitute fraud.
This is why so many internet sellers throw in the obligatory "I don't know anything about this item" CYA rhetoric, basically stating; "you decide if it is real or authentic".

This is why we all look for three day inspections, authentication by experts in your high dollar items and money back guarrantys.
It is certainly morally reprehensible to misrepresent anything you are attempting to profit from.

cirelaw · 08-09-2012, 05:20 PM

I agree the system helps those who are honest. Where would we be without our luger family. Allot of times its a mere miscommunication by either party. Every gun I own was purchased from our lil family! A++++ 8 years I have become very knowlegable. Luvya all!

command450 · 08-20-2012, 02:34 PM

When I first seen this. I was just about to chime in and say, yes it can be saved. Ive done parkerizing and Bluing. I also have saved a few lugers,that would have been written off by many. park can be be removed easily with naval jelly,or other types of acids. all bluing proccess' are actually forms of rust. Nickle plating is a different story.

I personally think its by far the best route,to restore lugers when they have issues and this case its a shining example of why its worth doing!

Congrats to the O P.

01-31-2010, 12:51 AM	#63
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks so much for posting the photos. I agree with Ron a prime restore. Another piece of history saved. __________________ Matt A. Tampa, FL (C&R) Collector

01-31-2010, 12:40 PM	#65
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Talk about return on investment! You now have a piece that is easily worth more than ten times what you have in it. Wow! Could you please buy a couple of lottery tickets for me? Anyone with that kind of good fortune has got to be a lightning rod for more good stuff. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-31-2010, 10:06 PM	#67
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	I believe about 600 of the AE Fat barrels were made. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Does anyone have any idea how many still survive? Last edited by wayne8661; 02-08-2010 at 10:26 PM.

01-30-2010, 11:59 PM	#61
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Wayne -- How much it cost to do this, if not a secret?

01-31-2010, 12:34 AM	#62
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Wayne; It looks great! I am interested in the getting in contact with your restorer, I have already sent the Cartridge Counter to Gale Morgan but I have another 1900 test eagle that I would like to get restored. If you can forward me his contact information on a private message I would appreciate it. Thanks, Bob M.

01-31-2010, 11:39 AM	#64
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Okay I am kind of uncomfortable with giving a price But in this case I would like to tell you guys so you can see how reasonable Ken is. He charged me $565.00 to do my pistol. That is unbelievable. And he offered me a 15 dollar discount to pay with cash. Ken Karstead 41 Linden Ave, Lake Forest Illinois 60045 847-234-0441 Ken did my pistol for a more than reasonable price and he did it in a reasonable time. But I do know that he has about 5 lugers to be done so the wait may be a bit longer than mine was.

01-31-2010, 08:16 PM	#66
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks Wayne for the info. The restoration charge is much lower than I expected!! I visited book store today and The Official Gun Digest Book of Guns & Prices 2009 (the best gun price guide IMHO) says only a few hundred fat barrels were made, excellent fat barrel goes $12K. There is even smaller variation called "Cartidge Counter", only 50 were made.

02-01-2010, 09:11 PM	#68
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Wayne Beautiful restoration of your 1902 AE, sn 23100, at a bargain price. When Imperial Lugers was published, over 20 years ago, it was estimated that 860 1902 AE were manufactured. This estimate was based on analysis of 84 reported serial numbers (page 11). Jan

02-01-2010, 09:30 PM	#69
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Mr Still, Is there any estimate on how many survived?

02-02-2010, 10:15 AM	#70
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	As I said on the other forum. it was an outstanding work done by Ken. Hats off to him! The minor issues reported can easily be fixed. The worst part is over and now you have a rare Luger to display. Thanks for showing the "before and after" process. Douglas

07-29-2012, 03:07 PM	#71
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What is the process referred to as 'parkerzed' Ive never heard of it? In any event this looks like a job for Dr Ted! Eric

07-29-2012, 04:20 PM	#73
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thanks John, a GREAT explanation!

07-30-2012, 08:51 AM	#74
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	"bluing, which is another electrochemical conversion coating". Do you mean at the molecular level? Because all the bluing I have ever seen or done is just dunking the part into a boiling solution with certain chemical salts in it. No electricity is applied like is done with say nickel plating. There are also other bluing methods like rust bluing which is a controled rusting process and carbonia bluing which is done solely with heat. Again, no electriciy. Not trying to be picky here! Just to clarify.

07-30-2012, 03:37 PM	#75
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	If only I could find a ratty Catridge Counter!! You deserve it for sharing it, Eric Esq

08-09-2012, 03:23 PM	#76
Short Round User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, this thread is great. I always cringe at ruined guns even the bubba's $79 Mosin nagant in a plastic stock. What was salvaged with that restoration is indeed a joyous moment to counteract all those thousands of bubba guns out there.

08-09-2012, 04:17 PM	#77
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A little Legal. Do he have a duty to inform a perspective purchaser of all it went through? Lets see who gets this one right, Villanova Law 1981!

08-09-2012, 05:00 PM	#78
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Unlike an automobile or home, I don't believe there are any legal disclosure statutes surrounding collector guns, unless you represent the piece as something that it is not, which might constitute fraud. This is why so many internet sellers throw in the obligatory "I don't know anything about this item" CYA rhetoric, basically stating; "you decide if it is real or authentic". This is why we all look for three day inspections, authentication by experts in your high dollar items and money back guarrantys. It is certainly morally reprehensible to misrepresent anything you are attempting to profit from.

08-09-2012, 05:20 PM	#79
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I agree the system helps those who are honest. Where would we be without our luger family. Allot of times its a mere miscommunication by either party. Every gun I own was purchased from our lil family! A++++ 8 years I have become very knowlegable. Luvya all!

08-20-2012, 02:34 PM	#80
command450 User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Michigan Posts: 38 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	When I first seen this. I was just about to chime in and say, yes it can be saved. Ive done parkerizing and Bluing. I also have saved a few lugers,that would have been written off by many. park can be be removed easily with naval jelly,or other types of acids. all bluing proccess' are actually forms of rust. Nickle plating is a different story. I personally think its by far the best route,to restore lugers when they have issues and this case its a shining example of why its worth doing! Congrats to the O P.