The M1906 Russian Contract Controversy Strikes Again - Page 3

alanint · 10-02-2011, 10:03 PM

Why do otherwise intelligent Europeans still harbor this myth that we on this side of the pond are some sort of troglodytes?

We have saved their collective asses countless times and still they resent us?

Go figure?

Norme · 10-02-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Why do otherwise intelligent Europeans still harbor this myth that we on this side of the pond are some sort of troglodytes?

We have saved their collective asses countless times and still they resent us?

Go figure?

Hi Doug, Having lived on both sides of "the pond" I can assure you that this is far from true. Most Europeans respect and admire America and Americans. Albert's problem is that he can't seem to grasp that, while strong opinions are tolerated on the forum, personal attack is not. I'll miss Albert, although I seldom agree with him, his posts are always interesting and thought provoking. Regards, Norm

Edward Tinker · 10-02-2011, 10:31 PM

there is some feelings that we as americans have a lot of fake stuff. I think some of the feeling is true, but also we have so many of the guns here, compared to there?

However, there are many folks who try very hard to fit in with 'us' and we need to remember that it is the minority that treat us like Albert does.

When I was on vacation from iraq to the Netherlands and was at a collectors meeting, I was treated like a member, it was very nice. Also, went to Joop's and then Vlim's houses and they treated me like a king

Ed

alanint · 10-02-2011, 11:29 PM

As someone who grew up in Latin America and have lived and traveled in Europe quite a bit, ( just spent the last week in Cannes at a convention) I am not trying to paint Europeans in general as being intolerant but was merely trying to single out Albert as being one of those curious exceptions who just can't seem to help themselves and always play the xenophobic card whenever others don't agree with them. Facts are facts. Just deal with this...

Ron Wood · 10-02-2011, 11:41 PM

I too am occasionally difficult. Please do not ban Albert. A pain in the butt will eventually go away if gently treated (a kind word helps with people and Preparation H works for the physical type).

I respect Albert's opinions and his right to express them. I don't always agree with them and I think he needs to tone down his insults and exercise a bit of anger management, but I don't want him to go away...I need an easy target

. I resent his constant attacks on Americans, and he is much less German than many of us. An accidental location of birth does not make one an authority or have the right to demean others. Take it with a grain of salt...I do and I assure you I am 100% American and have much deeper German roots than he. Cut him some slack. He does bring intelligence and a lively discussion to the forum (just want him to cut out the personal attack crap).

Michael Zeleny · 10-03-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I too am occasionally difficult. Please do not ban Albert. A pain in the butt will eventually go away if gently treated (a kind word helps with people and Preparation H works for the physical type).

I respect Albert's opinions and his right to express them. I don't always agree with them and I think he needs to tone down his insults and exercise a bit of anger management, but I don't want him to go away...

Seconded.

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

Seconded.

As a moderator in this forum Ron, you had the opportunity to 'deal' with Albert.

I have put up with direct attacks and some pretty forceful language on the forums and off the forums from Albert. I asked for opinions as a moderator whether he should stay, all mods should have received it.

I do not think he adds anything but disturbances to the forum, in fact Ron, you threatened to quit the forum at one time if Albert stayed.

If he would quit personally attacking me (petty from me I know, but it gets very OLD to see my name in headlines and then some smart-ass comment about my lack of intelligence or that I 'just don't understand'). This of course is in addition to attacks on other members...

Ed

Norme · 10-03-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

As a Jewish-owned company, DWM must have had adequate access to polyglots fleeing pogroms since the 1880s. More importantly, Western and Central Europe never suffered from linguistic ignorance. I know of no examples of European lapses comparable to the offerings of Engrish.com, which is what a Bulgarian spelling looks like to a Russian speaker.

Dear Michael, You and I both know that the Jews fleeing the pogroms were unlikely to have been gunsmiths. If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me. Also, both you and Albert seem to believe that the Germans of that period were incapable of making a mistake, don't forget they lost the war! Best regards, Norm

Michael Zeleny · 10-03-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Dear Michael, You and I both know that the Jews fleeing the pogroms were unlikely to have been gunsmiths. If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me. Also, both you and Albert seem to believe that the Germans of that period were incapable of making a mistake, don't forget they lost the war!

Norm, Jewish emigration from Russia encompassed all walks of life. Regardless of whom DWM was or wasn't recruiting, it remains that there were no Jewish monoglots between the fall of the Second Temple and the ascent of the Third International, and there was no shortage of linguistic knowledge for the Jewish-owned and largely Jewish-managed DWM to draw upon throughout its course of operations.

Vlim · 10-03-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me.

DWM was owned by the Ludwig Loewe group until 1928. The Loewe family were Jewish, most of the DWM management and sales executives were Jewish.

Ergo: The Parabellum Pistol is basically a Jewish pistol

Anyway, you should understand that until WW1 everybody in Europe was quite free to travel around, provided he had the means to do so. Customs offices were mostly non-existant, no import/export duties or other (expensive) costs had to be paid on imports and exports. Communication channels were excellent, mail and telegrams were delivered about 4 times a day (!). So there were enough possibilities for craftsmen to migrate from one territory to another.

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2011, 08:47 PM

Personally I would put Ron way ahead of me, but then you should read my 1st 'drafts' at times

Ron Wood · 10-03-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Personally I would put Ron way ahead of me, but then you should read my 1st 'drafts' at times

Only with respect to number of birthdays!

sheepherder · 10-03-2011, 09:31 PM

I spent the last hour at Still's reading Russian Contract threads...

I didn't know Ron was a bishop...I guess that makes the rest of us pawns...

LugerVern · 10-04-2011, 05:20 PM

sine curve! Oh, I am not going to ask

On a serious note, does anyone have a very good picture of the barrel proof that sometimes is present on Russian Lugers?

I am talking of the "shield".

I would like to study that aspect of this gun, never really thought to before as it is commonly thought of as an early DWM marking.

But you know there are variations of this marking and it might be interesting to do a detail review. Wouldn't hurt

By the way, I have never seen this on a Bulgarian Luger but it might be present on some, can some of you with this variation look to see if its present on your guns?

thanks

Vern

tudorbug · 10-05-2011, 10:07 AM

My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-)

David

mlmahon · 10-05-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tudorbug

My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-)

David

Now that's funny! Like I read somewhere, "The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says it's half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."

-ML

Edward Tinker · 10-05-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tudorbug

My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-)

David

Actually, being a non-engineer, i have always believed in the median of anything, so it appears that 10% of the folks in the middle should be banned....

sheepherder · 10-05-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

...it appears that 10% of the folks in the middle should be banned....

...I'll miss Wlyon, cirelaw, and alanint...

cirelaw · 10-05-2011, 09:19 PM

Heck Theres alwas Luger Gunboards!

DavidJayUden · 10-05-2011, 10:24 PM

Remember that even in a society of saints, there is always the sinner...
dju

10-02-2011, 10:31 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	there is some feelings that we as americans have a lot of fake stuff. I think some of the feeling is true, but also we have so many of the guns here, compared to there? However, there are many folks who try very hard to fit in with 'us' and we need to remember that it is the minority that treat us like Albert does. When I was on vacation from iraq to the Netherlands and was at a collectors meeting, I was treated like a member, it was very nice. Also, went to Joop's and then Vlim's houses and they treated me like a king Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-02-2011, 11:41 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	I too am occasionally difficult. Please do not ban Albert. A pain in the butt will eventually go away if gently treated (a kind word helps with people and Preparation H works for the physical type). I respect Albert's opinions and his right to express them. I don't always agree with them and I think he needs to tone down his insults and exercise a bit of anger management, but I don't want him to go away...I need an easy target. I resent his constant attacks on Americans, and he is much less German than many of us. An accidental location of birth does not make one an authority or have the right to demean others. Take it with a grain of salt...I do and I assure you I am 100% American and have much deeper German roots than he. Cut him some slack. He does bring intelligence and a lively discussion to the forum (just want him to cut out the personal attack crap). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 10-03-2011 at 01:15 AM.

10-03-2011, 09:31 PM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I spent the last hour at Still's reading Russian Contract threads... I didn't know Ron was a bishop...I guess that makes the rest of us pawns... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-02-2011, 10:03 PM	#1
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Why do otherwise intelligent Europeans still harbor this myth that we on this side of the pond are some sort of troglodytes? We have saved their collective asses countless times and still they resent us? Go figure?

10-02-2011, 11:29 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	As someone who grew up in Latin America and have lived and traveled in Europe quite a bit, ( just spent the last week in Cannes at a convention) I am not trying to paint Europeans in general as being intolerant but was merely trying to single out Albert as being one of those curious exceptions who just can't seem to help themselves and always play the xenophobic card whenever others don't agree with them. Facts are facts. Just deal with this...

10-03-2011, 08:47 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Personally I would put Ron way ahead of me, but then you should read my 1st 'drafts' at times

10-04-2011, 05:20 PM	#14
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	sine curve! Oh, I am not going to ask On a serious note, does anyone have a very good picture of the barrel proof that sometimes is present on Russian Lugers? I am talking of the "shield". I would like to study that aspect of this gun, never really thought to before as it is commonly thought of as an early DWM marking. But you know there are variations of this marking and it might be interesting to do a detail review. Wouldn't hurt By the way, I have never seen this on a Bulgarian Luger but it might be present on some, can some of you with this variation look to see if its present on your guns? thanks Vern

10-05-2011, 10:07 AM	#15
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-) David

10-05-2011, 09:19 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Heck Theres alwas Luger Gunboards!

10-05-2011, 10:24 PM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Remember that even in a society of saints, there is always the sinner... dju