30 Luger Cartridge Conversion

[rhuff]

I really enjoy your projects!! You seem to have really hit on something with your current milling process. You da man!!

[sheepherder]

This looks like a good place to link cartridge dimensions from an old COTW...

[sheepherder]

I was loading up five 30 Luger cartridges for tests in my 7.65 Parabellum-chambered Star BM and took out some brand new Winchester 30 Luger unprimed shells to set my RCBS dies up.

After setting the dies up, I started to run my shortened & sized 5.56mm Remington/NATO cases through the seating die and I was running into OAL case length issues...

It turns out the new unused Winchester shell cases are too short for 7.65 Parabellum specs...They run .840" and the accepted tolerance is .845" - .850" OAL...

The Winchester cases have .005" to .010" less neck. That means they don't grip the bullet as well as a full-length case.

I'm setting my case trimmer to .850" to get as much neck as possible.

Just a heads-up, if your die doesn't seem to be taper crimping the Winchester case neck down tight enough to hold the bullet securely...

[sheepherder]

I had a chance [first light] to shoot five rounds of my 5.56-to-7.65 conversion rounds today. 86gr JLRN bullet w/3.5grs of Red Dot and 4.0grs of Red Dot. Both loads out of a converted Star BM (barrel conversion detailed in another thread). (My 7.65 Luger is disassembled for barrel change).

The 3.5gr load was a pleasant surprise. All five rounds on paper. The 4.0grs load only cut paper once in five. No cycling in all ten, no ejection, and eight FTF's. Need to play with springs. I was hoping that the 7.65 would be a straight swap with 9mm but not the case. I may try a 4.3 or even 4.5 grain load of Red Dot, but the case is nearly full with 4.0grs. I stay away from compressed loads. I liked that the 3.5gr load was on target with no sight adjustments.

Star BM recoil spring is 'captive'. Easy to field strip & clean but difficult to change. I have two of these steel frame Star BM 9mm autos; one Israeli police surplus, one Spanish Guardia Civil. I'm thinking of re-springing one to 7.65 Parabellum. I have quite a few Star BM/BKM parts, just have to experiment with the springs...

Anyway, no problem with the case conversions. I was going to save the bright new Winchester cases for when I had the loads worked out for the Star but since they're out of spec I'll just work them in with the 'homeboyz'.

[glock30]

Wouldn't a 9X23 case work much better?

[elmoroz]

Here in Italy, 9mm isn't allowed, so we shoot a lot 9x21 IMI. I just use a LEE 4-dies-kit to form 9x21 IMI shells into .30 luger shells, no trimming, little crimping. They work just fine on mine.

[rhuff]

That is good to know. I have no idea how hard it might be here in the USA to find/purchase 9X21 IMI brass, but I will look and see.

[elmoroz]

Ah.. I almost forgot.. I use 93gn copper plated Target bullets...http://www.targetbullets.it/copper-s...w_2090140.html

[Chickenthief]

Here's my take on using alternative resources.
The IPSC guys shoot major using the mildest loading that works and that is 38 Super.
So over the years i have picked up 200+ and they have just been sitting there waiting.
I tried one through the 7,65 sizer and what du you know it only needs a trim before it's finished and because it's a (thin) pistol cartridge no reaming nessesary :-)

What to shoot, well i bought a Lee .311-93-1R mould and cast up a handfull.
Jacketed speeds with such a small cast bullet might be to much so i took on a quest to make my own freechecks gear.
Freechecks are a gascheck made from aluminium beer can and crimped onto a non gascheck bullet.

Now i only need the police to get finished with my permit and then i'll report back with results.

Cases:




Freechecks:

[Chickenthief]

Bullets:

[Chickenthief]

Now i have loaded and fired some of those converted 38 super cases.
The original case is sturdy as is and the necked down case has way thick case necks, so much so that a loaded round wont chamber. So the past day i have reamed the inside of the neck on 200 cases. Now i can seat a .311" cast bullet and keep outside neck below .332".

Before reaming wall thickness was something like .016" and now more like .0095".
The Lee sizer works brass down to @.326" and that left the inside neck at @.296", that wont work. After reaming, necks are now @.307". Seat a bullet and necks are just shy of .332" and pass the plunk test.

So store bought brass for jacketed and these for cast.

[MJI-1198]

Wow, I guess I was lucky living in NH. most of my life, most the big gunshops always seemed to have .30 Luger on the shelf and it was always at gunshows. I have several .30's and over a thousand good cases, I like the old Remington dark green boxes when I find them.
.30 Mauser could be tough to find sometimes till the Communist's started selling Tokarov ammo here. 8x50 Rim Mannlicher used to be a pain, but now that PPU imports brass for the 8x56 Rim Hungarian that's no longer a problem, I just size in my 8x50 die and trim to length.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Chickenthief

Now i only need the police to get finished with my permit and then i'll report back with results.

It would be a big help if you attached your pics here on LugerForum. That way, they will still be here next year for other members to view.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by glock30

Wouldn't a 9X23 case work much better?

Yes, it would.

Starline sells 30 Luger cases reasonably so there's little need to "roll your own". However, if I did, I'd use 9mm Largo cases as they are rimless and 23mm in length; ideal to run through a sizing die and produce a nice 30 Luger case.