Advice on 1st Luger

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Freischütz

I always thought the new grip safety that attached to both sides of the frame was the problem. How is that cured?

The grip safety on the 70s pivots and works the same way as the originals, though the attaching point is set up a little differently. I think Sieger is saying the spring is too strong compared to originals. Since an original grip safety spring is different enough from an original that they can't be interchanged, then the 70s spring must be diminished in strength somehow. so, I'm curious about just how this may be accomplished easily.

I agree wholeheartedly about the grips. On the Swiss style models, the checkering is coarser than original, 18 lpi v. 20 lpi. I found that this, combined with the squarish cross section, made mine feel like I was holding onto a rough-cut 2 X 4. When I shot it for a couple of mags, I noticed that the checkering had been embossed into the web of my hand! One will also apparently encounter grips of two thicknesses. I don't think people complain about the thinner version. The thicker ones are more uncomfortable, BUT they can be addressed by removing the checkered pattern entirely, rounding the contours approaching the edges, then re-applying new, 20 lpi checkering. This turns a lion into a mouse.

[SteveM]

Looks like SailorBill got a good one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=414551634

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Looks like SailorBill got a good one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=414551634

A brand-new Luger for $1.6k! Sha-weeet! Congrats!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Looks like SailorBill got a good one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=414551634

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

A brand-new Luger for $1.6k! Sha-weeet! Congrats!

OK, I'm not all that up on GB auctions, so...

- How do you know that it was a BIN??? The last bid was $1275...By Sailor Bill...On the 18th...And the last bid on the 20th was only for $1250...So Bill got it for...$1275???

- It's made by Mauser...Why doesn't it have the 'Mauser hump'??? I know it's 1970's production...Did Mauser decide that it wasn't worth the effort???

In any event, I like it!

[SailorBill]

OK, I did win the auction, but then learned that the Mauser could not be brought into California . . . not old enough to be C&R and no Mauser or Luger is on the state approved selling list.

Obviously, I got carried away and forgot to do my homework. Lesson learned ... the hard way. Of course, I did get to participate in my first auction . .

But now, it's back to the old drawing board . . .

[sheepherder]

It's relisted, with a BIN of $1400...Somebody jump on it quick!!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=417582367

[ithacaartist]

Rich, I misread the auction data...

Bill, Jeez, tough luck on the CA regs. That really displays negative pressure (sucks). Reasonable even at sixteen hundred, I thought, so you did well and likely can get out of this one without going into the red.

Is there a chance to have these added to the list--like requesting an exemption/addition to the federal list? Simpler to resell, but just a thought. Probably would put the pistol into limbo for quite a while ...

[SailorBill]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

It's relisted, with a BIN of $1400...Somebody jump on it quick!!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=417582367

That was going to be my top bid the last time . . .

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by SailorBill

OK, I did win the auction, but then learned that the Mauser could not be brought into California . . . not old enough to be C&R and no Mauser or Luger is on the state approved selling list.

Then where are our California members buying their Lugers from???

Tell you what...Send the guy the money and tell him to send it to your good friend Richie B in NYS...I'll fax him an FFL...And we'll go from there...

[SailorBill]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Then where are our California members buying their Lugers from???

C&R (pre 1964) are OK. Otherwise, I've been told that the only possibility might be guns already in the state before the regs were enacted. "Grandfathered in" so to speak. (Not speaking from actual reading of the regs.)

[SailorBill]

YES. I won the bid for the Mauser Luger – for a second time! Paid $1300 (original winning bid was $1275).

What changed to make me do that again? Turns out, I got some bad information from a several local gun stores and FFLs. Initially, I had bid based on the entries in Simpson’s Internet catalog. They listed all the Interarms Lugers as C&R. When I contacted local FFL’s, they said the P08 framed Luger did not qualify because it was not described in the ATF C&R book. The C&R description on page 25 includes the words “Swiss pattern,” but not P08.

However, when I asked Simpson how they could include the P08 framed Mauser when the description on P25 of ATF’s C&R book only said “Swiss pattern” They replied:

“We have always interpreted the rule to include all the Interarms Lugers, regardless of frame style, which we feel is the intent of the rule. Most Luger dealers have this same interpretation without any problems.”

Following up on Simpson’s statement, I called KrauseWerk in nearby San Mateo. Their response was, “no problem, we can handle the transaction!” With that, I entered the bidding again!

For those of you interested, here is some more California information: As of 2014, all pistols must be purchased using a licensed FFL, even if you have a C&R federal license. One exception, if a C&R licensee purchase a C&R pistol out of state, she/he need only complete a form and file it with the state within five days after returning.

Also, before 2014, if you had a C&R and California "Certificate of Eligibility," you could have a pistol shipped to you without having to go through a regular FFL dealer. Unfortunately, as of 2014, “no pistol or conciliable firearm, regardless of C&R status can be ordered from out of state and shipped in, or sold within the state without going through a Class 01 Dealer FFL.”

Since California collects sales tax on the transaction, it appears that this new rule may have more to do with revenue than anything else.

[saab-bob]

Sailor Bill
You should join http://calguns.net/calgunforum/
The folks there are very knowledgeable about the morass of firearm laws in our state and happy to help.
Its a great place to get info and to keep up with the arbitrary law changes these days. Mostly due to a very anti-gun attorney general and state legislature.
Bob

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

- It's made by Mauser...Why doesn't it have the 'Mauser hump'??? I know it's 1970's production...Did Mauser decide that it wasn't worth the effort???

In any event, I like it!

Rich, I believe the answer to your question is that Mauser started production of the 1970 Interarms Mausers using equipment they bought from the Swiss.

The Swiss never leave any suspect engineering to chance and had tweaked the manufacture of their own Luger frames to eliminate unnecessary production costs by extending the full back of the frame ears to the distance that the Mauser bump had been engineered to ensure that the toggle pin never slid out while in service.

They also left the trigger lever "bump" on the sideplate as full length, instead of trimming it back to German standards for the same cost reduction reasons.

[SailorBill]

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Sailor Bill
You should join http://calguns.net/calgunforum/
Bob

Thanks Bob, I just bookmarked the site.

[singleshotman]

A C and R has never been of any use to buy pistols In California, its been that way ever since the 1968 Gun Control Act. Until this year you could buy a Rifle by mail order. I gave up on gun shows in CA when you could not even buy a rifle at them starting in 1991. Handguns were NEVER legal to sell at gun show, heck you could not even buy a MUZZLE LOADER at a gun show. I now live in Texas were a C and R is useful. I do agree that the CA Tax Board will use any way to collect taxes, they even used to send Tax Bills to persons living out of state, the Supreme court stopped that scam. I do miss the weather there, however.

[SailorBill]

(I apologize in advance for the long post that follows)

The story of my first experience with an on-line gun auction (as embarrassing as it may be) needs to be completed. As noted earlier, I won the auction and the Luger was shipped to my California FFL dealer. While at the dealer’s doing the paperwork, I began inspecting my “new” Luger, and it appeared as nice as shown in the online photos. Then, of course, I had to try working the action. Hmm. For some reason, I found that I could not get the toggle to move more than about a half an inch. When I complained, the clerk said to me, “there’s a bit of a technique to this . . . “ and he proceeded to demonstrate how to make it work. Well, at least he tried, but he also could not move the toggle more than a half an inch! The mechanism would not budge!

After a bit of a tussle, the clerk managed to field strip the Luger into two major components, where it was discovered that the gun was “dry,” as in no lubrication. Best guess, it appeared to have been put away over 30 years ago with inadequate lubrication and never looked at again. In fact, a bit of lite rust was evident on some of the non-blued surfaces.

Needless to say, after being so excited about acquiring my first Luger, I was feeling pretty depressed at this point. My immediate thought was, “well, they did say, ‘buyer be ware,’ when dealing with online sites such as Gun Broker. I guess I learned the lesson the hard way . . as usual.”

Luckily, Mike Krause, the gun store owner, has extensive experience with Lugers and he offered to free the gun – “at a cost not to exceed $100.” I figured that was a good way to go, especially since I have no idea how to repair it, nor do I know where or if there is another local Luger gunsmith. And, since I must wait ten days to take possession, having the work done at the same location seemed to make sense.

After returning home, I Emailed the seller with my complaint about the gun’s condition and suggest he might want to help cover the gunsmith’s charges. No sale . . he said to just return the gun and he’d send me my money. That sounded fair enough, except the gun was already in process, I had paid the non-refundable DROSS fee and I would be out the shipping charge, bridge toll and the mileage to the dealer (60 miles round trip). All of that added up to about equal to the gunsmith’s $100 charge, so keeping the Luger was a wash. And besides, it was a very good looking pistol.

Well, of course, I changed my feedback rating of the seller from an A to a D for failure to disclose a significant aspect of the pistol’s condition in his description of the Luger (upsetting the seller no end). I’m pretty sure that informing the bidders about the frozen mechanism would have had a negative impact on the bidding. I know that I likely would not have bid at all, given my lack of knowledge of such things.

After the ten day wait (actually 12 days), I returned to “Krausewerk” to pick up the Luger. Mike Krause had done a great job on the pistol. It now cycles, although stiffly (like new!). A check of the bore found it bright and shinny. Following its $100 service, the Luger is now “as advertised.” In fact, it’s so nice, that I’m hesitant to fire it - - And remember, I did purchase four boxes of Luger .30 ammunition in anticipation.

This episode has been a “crash course” in buying firearms, state regulations and on-line auctions. It's clear, from reading what other post, that I still have a long way to go . . .

[cirelaw]

Enjoy your new friend!

[Douglas Jr.]

Well sialor, you surely sailed through rough seas.
But you are safe now. As far as I know Mike Krause is a reference to deal with Lugers.
It's not difficult to have a Luger further damaged by a gunsmith that don't know how to work on this peculiar gun.
Congratulations and enjoy your first!
Douglas

[SailorBill]

Because the box in which the Parabellum came has a price sticker on its bottom, I thought it would be interesting to do a bit of research on the Parabellum’s values today vs. yesteryear.

The printed sticker reads “WILSON’S / $850.” The $850 is marked out with a pen and $650 is written in its place. From this, I’m assuming that the original price was $850 and it was marked down $200 at the time of sale.

If the Luger originally sold near the end of the Parabellum run in 1985, those prices in today’s dollars would be $1,872 and $1,432. Which would seem to indicate that the gun’s value today is about equal to it’s value back then. In other words, at today’s prices ($1400 - $1900), the Luger’s appreciation in value is about in line with inflation.

However, if one had purchased the Luger for those same amounts at the beginning of the run (about 1975), then today’s value of the dollars spent would be $3,744 and $2,863 Which would not have been a very good investment . . . (If he keeps it, maybe my son can see how well the Luger appreciates in the next 30 or 40 years.)

Of course, as with most hobbies, one is not really looking for appreciation. It’s the reward of ownership that counts.

[DavidJayUden]

Unfortunately most things fall into this same price/value/time scenerio. That is the cost of having a government that prints money loose and free.
Anyone have examples that can withstand this acid test of time and inflation?
dju