Failure to go into battery every time - Page 3

G.T. · 12-17-2021, 10:38 PM

Hi Don, and Merry Christmas! I did mean only the barrel? If I miss-stated, I apologize, but with that said, the ramp looks convex and radiused incorrectly as well? I can't say it will be the cure, but it can't hurt to make correct?... Best to you my friend, til...lat'r...GT

RWBlue01 · 12-18-2021, 09:32 PM

GT, I don't think it is a relined barrel. But you can decide when you get it.

DonVoigt, The 1916 is good to go as is, but the parts are not interchangeable with the 1940. Min and max specs. I can't get the uppers and lowers to work in any combination. Not even the breach blocks.

G.T. · 12-18-2021, 10:56 PM

Hi RWBlue, yes, I'll take a closer look when it is in hand.. As for interchangability, most of the time, most of the assemblies, will interchange? But if you do enough of this, you'll find a sizable percentage will not! The Navy I just completed for Ed, wouldn't go together no matter what i tried! I was almost like the parts repelled each other!!! I have four shooters, and I'm pretty confident one will work... Anxious to get a look'see and report back! Best to you, til.....lat'r....GT

G.T. · 12-23-2021, 09:52 PM

The upper arrived today and it is miss-match but everything is pretty nice and straight, perfect for a shooter! Barrel has NOT been relined and/but, the feed ramp was poorly cut, so I straightened that out with a Dremel and a rubberized abrasive cone point. The ramp and chamber mouth are now properly formed and it works flawlessly at the test bench, so now, next stop will be the range! I did find the rear end of the forks bent together about .005" and I corrected this as well. The receiver fit my test byf frame perfectly and I'm pretty confident this baby's going to work!... Only thing that worries me is the extractor stops on the breechblock are long gone and I am not fore sure how this will affect extraction, if at all? Anyone ever have this issue on there shooter?... Best, til....lat'r.....GT...

BTW, I see earlier in this thread, we briefly discussed this issue? I'm going to test it with the broken out BB, then, if an issue, will swap it out with a non-broken one just to see?....

sdmark777 · 12-24-2021, 01:51 AM

Yes, 1937 S/42. Shoots fine w/out the breech block stops. Some one here said they purposely ground off the sides of the extractor on their shooter to prevent damaging the breech block like mine was. Same result. Hope that helps.

G.T. · 12-24-2021, 11:23 AM

Hi Mark and all, I think the only reason for the stops being there in the first place was to reduce over and repeated full compression if the extractor spring? Thanks again Mark, til.....lat'r.....GT...

DonVoigt · 12-26-2021, 09:25 AM

Under normal operation, those little projections do not touch the breech block itself.

Grinding them off intentionally is a practice I've not heard of before - I don't think such was ever an "approved" practice, JMHO.

If the projections did not serve a purpose they would not have been included in the design or would have been eliminated during production- they would simplify mfg. of both the extractor and the recesses in the bolt quite significantly.

I believe such purpose is to aid in retention of the extractor in the breech block; without them there is nothing to prevent the extractor from moving forward and out of the block except the curve of the projection under the cross pin. Of course later on the Swiss altered the design to a full circle for the pin- did they eliminate the forward projections ?

I don't collect Swiss lugers, so can't check an extractor for its shape; GT ? Luger doc ?

The chips in the picture are a well known type failure, but not one frequently encountered - it can only be caused by a major malfunction = a punctured primer/ruptured case and the resulting significant gas leak.

G.T. · 12-26-2021, 12:21 PM

Althought not a great design for large quantity manufacture, I agree that every nuance of the extractors design has a reason behind it! As for the Swiss extractor, it seems to be identical with the exception of the hole for retention rather then the small spur that protrudes from the bottom. I have had some few applications where there was enough clearance for the Swiss extractor to fit and work freely, most of the time, no...
But, whe I removed this extractor, I found that the spring OAL had been reduced by at least a third, which reinforces my theory that the tab stops on the breech block are there to prevent overcompression of the small coil spring that was used? And BTW, when I checked the Luger initially for head space, the action closed easily on the "NO-GO" gauge? I replaced the breechblock with a Mauser one, probably "byf" and ended up replacing the middle toggle pin and rear toggle part to get the proper head space back into tolerance... With the ramp correction and all the rest, the Luger is now smooth and snappy and I have every confidence that it will work properly at the range. Of course, I remember that thoughtfull phrase, Optimism-Is Going after Moby Dick in a Rowboat and taking Tartar Sauce With You!

I will keep all in the loop as we progress! BTW, Santa was good to me, shorts, colorful socks, a Marvin the Martian tee shirt! (from a disitant planet not to far from here) Suspenders, and chocklate covered cherries! Last but not least, a bottle of Crown Royal which is directly tyed to my problem solving sessions... Now who can top all that! Meeerrryy Christmas! Ho, de, hoho,,,, best, til...lat'r....GT....

G.T. · 01-04-2022, 06:23 PM

Hi to all! Well, if the problem was in the top end, it's not there anymore? The barreled receiver ran perfectly thru three mags of 7 and/or 8 rounds and never missed a beat! I inspected the brass, and although the primer strike was deep, it didn't pierce the primer and was consistant all thru the test. I even swithched ammo from WW white box 115 gr. ball to Federal 124 gr. ball and it ran along perfectly and un-changed... I am pondering taking a few firing pins with me back to the range to see if it makes any difference on strike depth?
I'm going to pow-wow with RW and see what we need, or maybe want, to do going forward..... But, success was the final verdict...

Best to all, til....lat'r....GT....

BTW, problem, block won't close, solution: re-eatablish correct feed ramp angle & depth, and, also tune and straighten forks to eliminate binding and drag, which one was the cure, anyones guess...

... best, GT

G.T. · 01-07-2022, 07:16 PM

Well, never one to trust fate, I got out the old magnafying glass and took a closer look at the problem pin? I cousd see immeadiatly that the tip was rough and although not corroded, it showed signs of irrgularity. I check the protrusion and depth to the breech face with about a dozen pins and all were within + or - .002" Soooo, I took some 400 W/D and smoothed everything out, and polished with a dremal fine buff and back to the range we went! I loaded and fired three rounds, covering the luger with my straw hat, (only way I can catch brass!) Looked like an idiot, bet mission accomplished, nice smooth pin strike.. I think no more issues, boxed it up and it'e on it's way back to Darian!
Always something new and interesting to learn on these Lugers... Just more fun for me! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT....

G.T. · 02-05-2022, 10:23 PM

Hi to all! Well, I've not heard whether or not we cured the issue with the top end mods performed? I am sure he is busy making a living and probably will write when he gets time? I'd really like to know how it turned out, but sometimes, we don't get that privilege? On to the next quest, I know there is a windmill turning somewhere!!! Best to all, til....lat'r.....

....GT...

RWBlue01 · 02-06-2022, 01:03 AM

I wish I could test. But I am at one place and it is at a different place.

They are also have a sever ice storm, so even if I was there, I couldn't test.

I hope to be back in the spring to test this and play with my other toys.

G.T. · 02-06-2022, 10:43 AM

Hi RWblue01, very good to hear from you, I thought you were lost for a bit, but all is well now! I understand about the being away issue, life has its priorities, and I will be patient and await your test results somewhere in the future when time and proximity permit! In the meantime, stay healthy and happy, let us know how we did, when you can...... best, til....lat'r....GT...

RWBlue01 · 02-07-2022, 02:54 AM

Not all those who wander are lost...

G.T. · 02-07-2022, 12:50 PM

Unfortunately, I think I' a victim of both?.....

...
Oh, check that, my wife says I don't wander much anymore.... Best, til...lat'r....GT....

RWBlue01 · 09-09-2022, 09:29 PM

I am finally back where this gun is located.

And pulled out my different ammo.

German Blue practice ammo, did what I expected. It was my test of ammo which should test that the firing pin works. It goes pop and the little plastic bullet hits the target. It doesn't have enough power to move an action. (If something was seriously wrong with firing pin or action or...it is the safest way to know.)

Remington worked just fine.
WinWhite Box works just fine.
Wolf steelworks just fine.

Norma, Fiocchi..Unreliable at times. I am guessing they are too powerful and the action is moving to the rear and coming forward too quickly. The bolt doesn't hit the rear of the cartridge. See Photo.

Seems consistent with both luger P08s.

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RWBlue01 · 09-09-2022, 09:38 PM

Then I tried some Freedom Munitions.

I have never seen stepped brass.
I have never had head separation in a pistol round.

With Freedom Munitions, I had both.
First round ran fine.
Second round left half the brass in the chamber.

I spent today chasing Freedom Munitions around and trying to get the brass out.

Freedom declared bankruptcy taking no liability, but selling the name to the next company by what appears to be the same people.
Perfectly legal, but not ethical by any means.

It appears I also had a 90 days to tell them there was an issue with the loaded ammo. So if you don't shoot your ammo every 90 days, you are screwed.

OK, off the box...

If anyone else has this issue a 3/8s drill bit hand turned with plyers is how you remove stuck half brass in 9mm. It is perfectly sized for the brass and not hitting the chamber.

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All in all GT you are great.
Freedom Munitions sucks.
And I love my P08s

RWBlue01 · 09-09-2022, 09:44 PM

Oh LAX ammo appears to be in the same group. They suck also.

Vlim · 09-10-2022, 01:53 PM

The P08 has a stepped chamber, so any 2-piece brass cases will separate?

Mac Cat · 09-10-2022, 08:53 PM

My nephew dropped a 9mm luger cartridge into Dad's T-54 (7.62x25mm), which jammed pretty tightly. I was surprised that it chambered. I guess the gun had been heavily used and was well worn.
I think it's pretty dangers extracting a live round.

I had to back it out with a wooden rod.

12-17-2021, 10:38 PM	#41
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	only the barrel! Hi Don, and Merry Christmas! I did mean only the barrel? If I miss-stated, I apologize, but with that said, the ramp looks convex and radiused incorrectly as well? I can't say it will be the cure, but it can't hurt to make correct?... Best to you my friend, til...lat'r...GT

12-18-2021, 10:56 PM	#43
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Ookee dokie Hi RWBlue, yes, I'll take a closer look when it is in hand.. As for interchangability, most of the time, most of the assemblies, will interchange? But if you do enough of this, you'll find a sizable percentage will not! The Navy I just completed for Ed, wouldn't go together no matter what i tried! I was almost like the parts repelled each other!!! I have four shooters, and I'm pretty confident one will work... Anxious to get a look'see and report back! Best to you, til.....lat'r....GT

12-23-2021, 09:52 PM	#44
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Initial impressions! The upper arrived today and it is miss-match but everything is pretty nice and straight, perfect for a shooter! Barrel has NOT been relined and/but, the feed ramp was poorly cut, so I straightened that out with a Dremel and a rubberized abrasive cone point. The ramp and chamber mouth are now properly formed and it works flawlessly at the test bench, so now, next stop will be the range! I did find the rear end of the forks bent together about .005" and I corrected this as well. The receiver fit my test byf frame perfectly and I'm pretty confident this baby's going to work!... Only thing that worries me is the extractor stops on the breechblock are long gone and I am not fore sure how this will affect extraction, if at all? Anyone ever have this issue on there shooter?... Best, til....lat'r.....GT... BTW, I see earlier in this thread, we briefly discussed this issue? I'm going to test it with the broken out BB, then, if an issue, will swap it out with a non-broken one just to see?....

12-24-2021, 01:51 AM	#45
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 692 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	Yes, 1937 S/42. Shoots fine w/out the breech block stops. Some one here said they purposely ground off the sides of the extractor on their shooter to prevent damaging the breech block like mine was. Same result. Hope that helps. Attached Thumbnails

12-24-2021, 11:23 AM	#46
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Thanks Mark Hi Mark and all, I think the only reason for the stops being there in the first place was to reduce over and repeated full compression if the extractor spring? Thanks again Mark, til.....lat'r.....GT...

12-18-2021, 09:32 PM	#42
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	GT, I don't think it is a relined barrel. But you can decide when you get it. DonVoigt, The 1916 is good to go as is, but the parts are not interchangeable with the 1940. Min and max specs. I can't get the uppers and lowers to work in any combination. Not even the breach blocks.

12-26-2021, 09:25 AM	#47
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Under normal operation, those little projections do not touch the breech block itself. Grinding them off intentionally is a practice I've not heard of before - I don't think such was ever an "approved" practice, JMHO. If the projections did not serve a purpose they would not have been included in the design or would have been eliminated during production- they would simplify mfg. of both the extractor and the recesses in the bolt quite significantly. I believe such purpose is to aid in retention of the extractor in the breech block; without them there is nothing to prevent the extractor from moving forward and out of the block except the curve of the projection under the cross pin. Of course later on the Swiss altered the design to a full circle for the pin- did they eliminate the forward projections ? I don't collect Swiss lugers, so can't check an extractor for its shape; GT ? Luger doc ? The chips in the picture are a well known type failure, but not one frequently encountered - it can only be caused by a major malfunction = a punctured primer/ruptured case and the resulting significant gas leak. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-26-2021, 12:21 PM	#48
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	I agree with Don. Althought not a great design for large quantity manufacture, I agree that every nuance of the extractors design has a reason behind it! As for the Swiss extractor, it seems to be identical with the exception of the hole for retention rather then the small spur that protrudes from the bottom. I have had some few applications where there was enough clearance for the Swiss extractor to fit and work freely, most of the time, no... But, whe I removed this extractor, I found that the spring OAL had been reduced by at least a third, which reinforces my theory that the tab stops on the breech block are there to prevent overcompression of the small coil spring that was used? And BTW, when I checked the Luger initially for head space, the action closed easily on the "NO-GO" gauge? I replaced the breechblock with a Mauser one, probably "byf" and ended up replacing the middle toggle pin and rear toggle part to get the proper head space back into tolerance... With the ramp correction and all the rest, the Luger is now smooth and snappy and I have every confidence that it will work properly at the range. Of course, I remember that thoughtfull phrase, Optimism-Is Going after Moby Dick in a Rowboat and taking Tartar Sauce With You! I will keep all in the loop as we progress! BTW, Santa was good to me, shorts, colorful socks, a Marvin the Martian tee shirt! (from a disitant planet not to far from here) Suspenders, and chocklate covered cherries! Last but not least, a bottle of Crown Royal which is directly tyed to my problem solving sessions... Now who can top all that! Meeerrryy Christmas! Ho, de, hoho,,,, best, til...lat'r....GT....

01-04-2022, 06:23 PM	#49
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Range report! Hi to all! Well, if the problem was in the top end, it's not there anymore? The barreled receiver ran perfectly thru three mags of 7 and/or 8 rounds and never missed a beat! I inspected the brass, and although the primer strike was deep, it didn't pierce the primer and was consistant all thru the test. I even swithched ammo from WW white box 115 gr. ball to Federal 124 gr. ball and it ran along perfectly and un-changed... I am pondering taking a few firing pins with me back to the range to see if it makes any difference on strike depth? I'm going to pow-wow with RW and see what we need, or maybe want, to do going forward..... But, success was the final verdict... Best to all, til....lat'r....GT.... BTW, problem, block won't close, solution: re-eatablish correct feed ramp angle & depth, and, also tune and straighten forks to eliminate binding and drag, which one was the cure, anyones guess...... best, GT

01-07-2022, 07:16 PM	#50
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Success squared? Well, never one to trust fate, I got out the old magnafying glass and took a closer look at the problem pin? I cousd see immeadiatly that the tip was rough and although not corroded, it showed signs of irrgularity. I check the protrusion and depth to the breech face with about a dozen pins and all were within + or - .002" Soooo, I took some 400 W/D and smoothed everything out, and polished with a dremal fine buff and back to the range we went! I loaded and fired three rounds, covering the luger with my straw hat, (only way I can catch brass!) Looked like an idiot, bet mission accomplished, nice smooth pin strike.. I think no more issues, boxed it up and it'e on it's way back to Darian! Always something new and interesting to learn on these Lugers... Just more fun for me! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT....

02-05-2022, 10:23 PM	#51
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	final result? Hi to all! Well, I've not heard whether or not we cured the issue with the top end mods performed? I am sure he is busy making a living and probably will write when he gets time? I'd really like to know how it turned out, but sometimes, we don't get that privilege? On to the next quest, I know there is a windmill turning somewhere!!! Best to all, til....lat'r.........GT...

02-06-2022, 01:03 AM	#52
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	I wish I could test. But I am at one place and it is at a different place. They are also have a sever ice storm, so even if I was there, I couldn't test. I hope to be back in the spring to test this and play with my other toys.

02-06-2022, 10:43 AM	#53
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	still going! Hi RWblue01, very good to hear from you, I thought you were lost for a bit, but all is well now! I understand about the being away issue, life has its priorities, and I will be patient and await your test results somewhere in the future when time and proximity permit! In the meantime, stay healthy and happy, let us know how we did, when you can...... best, til....lat'r....GT...

02-07-2022, 02:54 AM	#54
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Not all those who wander are lost...

02-07-2022, 12:50 PM	#55
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	unfortunately Unfortunately, I think I' a victim of both?..... ... Oh, check that, my wife says I don't wander much anymore.... Best, til...lat'r....GT....

09-09-2022, 09:29 PM	#56
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	I am finally back where this gun is located. And pulled out my different ammo. German Blue practice ammo, did what I expected. It was my test of ammo which should test that the firing pin works. It goes pop and the little plastic bullet hits the target. It doesn't have enough power to move an action. (If something was seriously wrong with firing pin or action or...it is the safest way to know.) Remington worked just fine. WinWhite Box works just fine. Wolf steelworks just fine. Norma, Fiocchi..Unreliable at times. I am guessing they are too powerful and the action is moving to the rear and coming forward too quickly. The bolt doesn't hit the rear of the cartridge. See Photo. Seems consistent with both luger P08s.

09-09-2022, 09:38 PM	#57
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Then I tried some Freedom Munitions. I have never seen stepped brass. I have never had head separation in a pistol round. With Freedom Munitions, I had both. First round ran fine. Second round left half the brass in the chamber. I spent today chasing Freedom Munitions around and trying to get the brass out. Freedom declared bankruptcy taking no liability, but selling the name to the next company by what appears to be the same people. Perfectly legal, but not ethical by any means. It appears I also had a 90 days to tell them there was an issue with the loaded ammo. So if you don't shoot your ammo every 90 days, you are screwed. OK, off the box... If anyone else has this issue a 3/8s drill bit hand turned with plyers is how you remove stuck half brass in 9mm. It is perfectly sized for the brass and not hitting the chamber. All in all GT you are great. Freedom Munitions sucks. And I love my P08s

09-09-2022, 09:44 PM	#58
RWBlue01 User Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Oh LAX ammo appears to be in the same group. They suck also.

09-10-2022, 01:53 PM	#59
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The P08 has a stepped chamber, so any 2-piece brass cases will separate?

09-10-2022, 08:53 PM	#60
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 725 Thanks: 2,090 Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts	My nephew dropped a 9mm luger cartridge into Dad's T-54 (7.62x25mm), which jammed pretty tightly. I was surprised that it chambered. I guess the gun had been heavily used and was well worn. I think it's pretty dangers extracting a live round. I had to back it out with a wooden rod.