KÃ?Â¼ questions - Page 2

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-25-2003, 11:42 PM

Never mind, I see that eagle style is the Luftwaffe acceptance mark. I see that the KU Lugers have a poorer finish than standard byf Lugers...

nahpatronen · 04-26-2003, 06:12 AM

Note the special Luftwaffe ? acceptance marks. This mark appears only on the KÃ?Â¼ model.
The receiver and the sideplate are marked "42". The takedown lever is maked S/42 on the backside so it's presumably made on basis of Mauser parts late? in the war. It was found here at a German station for water-planes and has never been in Russia etc. I will take a photo of the internal of the barrel so you can see it's new.
Nahpatronen

Lugerdoc · 04-26-2003, 09:35 AM

I agree that some of the numbering an finish of this KU are not factory original, but the sideplate with the Mauser spare parts code "42" probably is. It's alway been my opinion that even though these are Mauser parts, they were assembled by Kreighoff rather than Mauser, so don't expect these to be typically Mauser. I've even owned a couple that had a few E/2 inspected interally marked KH made parts on them. Tom H.

Big Norm · 04-26-2003, 11:49 AM

Great discussion guys. The beauty of the forum comes to the forefront again.
Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 04-26-2003, 11:54 AM

Is it common for the trigger plate to have such "rounded" corners along its anterior (top) edge ?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-27-2003, 02:00 PM

I like what Jan C. Still has to say in his book "Third Reich Lugers" on page 97. The KU refers to KUMMERER which means substandard or missized. The KU Lugers were Luftwaffe Lugers made from leftover or missized parts, it is theorized. About 5000 were built, but with the question of where, as well as when???

nahpatronen · 04-28-2003, 08:33 AM

See two photos more:

Note that the safety has the s/n "19" and "42". Was it normal practice to Mauser to use the code 42 on the small parts ?
KÃ?Â¼ could also mean: KÃ?Â¼stenfliegertruppen. There are also other explanations of the KÃ?Â¼.

John Sabato · 04-28-2003, 10:05 AM

The small "42" is the manufacturer's (Mauser) mark for replacement parts... it is not commonly seen on a Luger except for the Toggle where it was put during the time that 42 was the code for Mauser.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-28-2003, 04:38 PM

I've noticed the small 42 stamped on many parts of the KÃ?? Lugers, even in the pictures of them in several books. If it is a stamp for a replacement part, then the KÃ??MMERER idea begins to sound more realistic, but as with many things we may never know, but we can hope to know...

Tony S. · 05-14-2003, 07:54 AM

I just purchased a 41 BYF KÃ?? from a very well known collector. The gun is mint in and out and all matching with all proper markings. The receiver and side plate have the small 42s as well. I did notice that the finish as mentioned before, is some what dull and gives that appearance of a post war Russian rework. But it is pretty obvious that the gun was not buffed since the crude machine tool marks are present as those produced during that period for military issue. Also, both wood grips have an E/655, one without a number and the other with a different number(very faint). The grips are in excellent shape. Is it normal for these guns to have non-numbered grips?
Thanks, Tony S.

Tony S. · 05-14-2003, 08:23 AM

Sorry! The markings inside the grips are E/555.
Thanks, Tony

04-25-2003, 11:42 PM	#21
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Never mind, I see that eagle style is the Luftwaffe acceptance mark. I see that the KU Lugers have a poorer finish than standard byf Lugers... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-26-2003, 09:35 AM	#23
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree that some of the numbering an finish of this KU are not factory original, but the sideplate with the Mauser spare parts code "42" probably is. It's alway been my opinion that even though these are Mauser parts, they were assembled by Kreighoff rather than Mauser, so don't expect these to be typically Mauser. I've even owned a couple that had a few E/2 inspected interally marked KH made parts on them. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-27-2003, 02:00 PM	#26
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I like what Jan C. Still has to say in his book "Third Reich Lugers" on page 97. The KU refers to KUMMERER which means substandard or missized. The KU Lugers were Luftwaffe Lugers made from leftover or missized parts, it is theorized. About 5000 were built, but with the question of where, as well as when??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-28-2003, 10:05 AM	#28
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The small "42" is the manufacturer's (Mauser) mark for replacement parts... it is not commonly seen on a Luger except for the Toggle where it was put during the time that 42 was the code for Mauser. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-28-2003, 04:38 PM	#29
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I've noticed the small 42 stamped on many parts of the KÃ?? Lugers, even in the pictures of them in several books. If it is a stamp for a replacement part, then the KÃ??MMERER idea begins to sound more realistic, but as with many things we may never know, but we can hope to know... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-26-2003, 06:12 AM	#22
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Note the special Luftwaffe ? acceptance marks. This mark appears only on the KÃ?Â¼ model. The receiver and the sideplate are marked "42". The takedown lever is maked S/42 on the backside so it's presumably made on basis of Mauser parts late? in the war. It was found here at a German station for water-planes and has never been in Russia etc. I will take a photo of the internal of the barrel so you can see it's new. Nahpatronen

04-26-2003, 11:49 AM	#24
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Great discussion guys. The beauty of the forum comes to the forefront again. Big Norm

04-26-2003, 11:54 AM	#25
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Is it common for the trigger plate to have such "rounded" corners along its anterior (top) edge ? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-28-2003, 08:33 AM	#27
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	See two photos more: Note that the safety has the s/n "19" and "42". Was it normal practice to Mauser to use the code 42 on the small parts ? KÃ?Â¼ could also mean: KÃ?Â¼stenfliegertruppen. There are also other explanations of the KÃ?Â¼.

05-14-2003, 07:54 AM	#30
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just purchased a 41 BYF KÃ?? from a very well known collector. The gun is mint in and out and all matching with all proper markings. The receiver and side plate have the small 42s as well. I did notice that the finish as mentioned before, is some what dull and gives that appearance of a post war Russian rework. But it is pretty obvious that the gun was not buffed since the crude machine tool marks are present as those produced during that period for military issue. Also, both wood grips have an E/655, one without a number and the other with a different number(very faint). The grips are in excellent shape. Is it normal for these guns to have non-numbered grips? Thanks, Tony S.

05-14-2003, 08:23 AM	#31
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry! The markings inside the grips are E/555. Thanks, Tony