New Guy with 1918 Erfurt Luger - Page 2

runscott · 02-28-2020, 02:59 PM

I don't see the post anymore, but someone had asked about the sideplate. Sadly, it is blank.

runscott · 03-02-2020, 02:14 PM

New mec-gar mag arrived today and everything now works fine. The spring on the old mag was shot and the lips were chewed and bent. I will try it at the range later today.

Thanks for all the advice and information. I look forward to spending more time on this forum.

runscott · 03-02-2020, 08:45 PM

I've probably about killed this topic, but in case anyone is still interested, the gun performed flawlessly today at the range with the new mag.

Doubs · 03-03-2020, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runscott

I've probably about killed this topic, but in case anyone is still interested, the gun performed flawlessly today at the range with the new mag.

That's great. I've always favored the Imperial era Lugers over the later ones as I've found them to be more reliable.

It's nice that your Luger has proven to be a good one.

runscott · 03-03-2020, 11:50 AM

I have only fired 14 rounds out of it: 4 just to get the feel of it, then it felt so good that I shot a 10rd target from 30'. Ignoring two outliers, the other 8 were pretty tight. For me this is great, and I think it will get better.

I've heard negatives about Luger grip angle, etc., but this is a very comfortable gun to shoot.

I definitely 'need' more Lugers to confirm this.

runscott · 03-05-2020, 10:43 AM

One more question about this gun. Given that the side-plate is not original ('31' on bottom edge), the firing pin also does not match ('36') and the non-original mag does not function, was $1300 shipped a reasonable price to pay for the gun, holster and belt w/buckle?

I asked because the auction house described it as: 'Numbers match on the gun, but the magazine is unmarked and appears to be aftermarket.' I let them know that at minimum the firing pin and side-plate did not match, and I had not checked anything that required a further breakdown. They'll take it back if I want to return it.

I realize that jumping into auctions blindly and bidding on things you know little about is a bad idea, but I've watched a few Lugers in past auctions and never saw any go much lower than $1,500, so I thought if the parts matched as the auction said, and the magazine at least worked, I couldn't go wrong at that price.

rhuff · 03-05-2020, 01:25 PM

You have purchased a shooter Luger for your first Luger(wise decision). It came with a nice belt and holster, but the best thing, IT WORKS CORRECTLY!!! If it were me in your position, I would keep the Luger and enjoy it.

runscott · 03-05-2020, 02:02 PM

Thank you very much!

refab60 · 03-14-2025, 05:38 AM

Hi!
I don't want to open a new tread so I post here.
I'm a new follower too - from Italy, and also I have my first Luger.
The "32" is marked on all parts but the magazine (it has a 4 number but I'm able to read them). Reflushed? What's the groove on the chamber, just before the barrel, for?
Do any tried to shoot a 25metr target? I tried but it was a disaster: bullets flying everywhere and 16" low.
As soon as possible I'll post more detailed pictures.

Doubs · 03-14-2025, 10:50 AM

The notch in the front of the receiver was required by a military directive in 1916 to be on all Lugers. It was so the receivers originally with a short barrel could be made into an Artillery (LP-08) Luger by simply changing the barrel. The notch allows the Artillery rear sight to sit properly.

Erfurt, a Royal Rifle Factory, followed the directive. DWM, a private contractor, only notched receivers that were actually made into an Artillery Luger.

refab60 · 03-20-2025, 05:09 PM

Hi, thank you for explaination (how can I say “thanks” on this forum?).
I took some others pictures, I’ld like to share with you to read the marks. I also found another number on the frame, it also has different font.
Any explanation?

refab60 · 03-20-2025, 05:11 PM

Here the serial number

refab60 · 03-20-2025, 05:19 PM

And then, a miscellaneous of marks

Doubs · 03-20-2025, 05:58 PM

Refab60, your Luger has been rechambered in 9x21mm. I assume it's because Italy doesn't allow civilians to own 9x19mm pistols. It has clearly gone through an Italian proof house as the proof marks show.

In general, Lugers are very accurate so I don't know why yours is not. Have you tried shooting it from a rest to eliminate human error? Lugers made in 1918 would have been zeroed at 50 meters with a 123 grain bullet at approximately 332 meters per second.

refab60 · 03-21-2025, 02:58 AM

Hi @Doubs, you are right, as usual!
All guns in 9 luger had to be rechambered in 9x21 because of a law of 1975 made all military calibers forbidden for civilians (also 30-06 e.g.). So all the collectors had to rape the chamebers or hand over the guns to Police.
We have to wait until feb 2022 to have 9x19 free again.
What about the 7229 in the frame? Any other info about the punches?
"Lugers made in 1918 would have been zeroed at 50 meters"
Are you sure about this? I assume this kinds of weapon were made for short distances, 15 meters or few more 'cause the short barrel, and zeroed at 25.
Anyway I'll follow your tip, thanks.

Doubs · 03-21-2025, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by refab60

Hi @Doubs, you are right, as usual!
All guns in 9 luger had to be rechambered in 9x21 because of a law of 1975 made all military calibers forbidden for civilians (also 30-06 e.g.). So all the collectors had to rape the chamebers or hand over the guns to Police.
We have to wait until feb 2022 to have 9x19 free again.
What about the 7229 in the frame? Any other info about the punches?
"Lugers made in 1918 would have been zeroed at 50 meters"
Are you sure about this? I assume this kinds of weapon were made for short distances, 15 meters or few more 'cause the short barrel, and zeroed at 25.
Anyway I'll follow your tip, thanks.

The 7229 on the frame is a mystery and I don't know why it's there or what it means.

Handguns are by their very nature generally considered short range arms. So it's interesting that the first Lugers made from 1909 until May, 1913, were zeroed between 80 and 110 meters. They were also made without the hold open that keeps the action open after the last shot. On 6 May, 1913, a military directive went out that all newly made Lugers would have the hold open. On 24 May, 1913, it was also determined that "point blank range" or zero should be 50 meters. Lugers made earlier without the hold open could be returned to the Erfurt Royal Rifle Factory to be modified with the hold open and also have the front sight replaced to bring zero to 50 meters. Newly manufactured Lugers would also be zeroed at 50 meters and have the hold open. Some of the early Lugers were thus modified but the war in 1914 didn't allow for all of them to be returned.

JLD1504 · 03-23-2025, 03:39 AM

As a Brit sometime resident in Italy and who owns a 1920 DWM P08 re-chambered in 9x21 I can offer the following thoughts.

From the photos the barrel looks original it has just been re-chambered from 9x19 to 9x21 and Gardone proof marks added. I might guess the additional number is possibly a sequence number of chamber conversions proof tests?

It is interesting that you report this pistol is 'wildly inaccurate' - mine is as accurate as other P08 I own and comfortably holds the 9 ring (10cm) on an ISSF Olympic target at 25m. There are some variables worth looking at perhaps to identify the issue of the reported inaccuracy. Firstly check the barrel condition and 'crown' of the barrel (at the muzzle) - any signs of significant wear and/or damage at the crown? any leading of the barrel or has it only fired jacketed ammunition....? Clean the chamber and barrel carefully and thoroughly to remove lead (if any).

If all looks good including the chamber - do the 'drop test' - separate the frame and receiver/barrel - hold the barrel vertically chamber up and place a 9x21 round bullet into the chamber entrance and let it drop in under gravity (its own weight alone). What happens? Does it chamber completely or not - if not then remove the cartridge examine, clean the chamber and/or try different cartridges until this test works! For safety reasons DO NOT attempt this test with an assembled pistol!

If this test works then, you should consider the ammunition you are using. My recent experience with Fiocchi 9x21 115gr in Italy is not good and groups are not great, nor as good as previously. I would suggest you try a selection of different batches or ammunition from friends including reloads to see if the accuracy improves? I would suggest you use jacketed 115gr bullets initially not lead bullets. With any new pistol shoot the pistol rested either from a rest or bag type rest - I would suggest you start and shoot at 10m if your TSN Poligono allows that? At 10m rested you should achieve a 20-30mm group or better rested. There is no need to shoot at 25m until you are certain about the accuracy of the pistol.
Let us know how you get on doing the above....

03-03-2020, 11:50 AM	#25
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	I have only fired 14 rounds out of it: 4 just to get the feel of it, then it felt so good that I shot a 10rd target from 30'. Ignoring two outliers, the other 8 were pretty tight. For me this is great, and I think it will get better. I've heard negatives about Luger grip angle, etc., but this is a very comfortable gun to shoot. I definitely 'need' more Lugers to confirm this. Attached Thumbnails

03-05-2020, 01:25 PM	#27
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,729 Thanked 989 Times in 727 Posts	You have purchased a shooter Luger for your first Luger(wise decision). It came with a nice belt and holster, but the best thing, IT WORKS CORRECTLY!!! If it were me in your position, I would keep the Luger and enjoy it. __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

03-14-2025, 05:38 AM	#29
refab60 User Join Date: Mar 2025 Location: Italia Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi! I don't want to open a new tread so I post here. I'm a new follower too - from Italy, and also I have my first Luger. The "32" is marked on all parts but the magazine (it has a 4 number but I'm able to read them). Reflushed? What's the groove on the chamber, just before the barrel, for? Do any tried to shoot a 25metr target? I tried but it was a disaster: bullets flying everywhere and 16" low. As soon as possible I'll post more detailed pictures. Attached Thumbnails

03-20-2025, 05:09 PM	#31
refab60 User Join Date: Mar 2025 Location: Italia Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, thank you for explaination (how can I say “thanks” on this forum?). I took some others pictures, I’ld like to share with you to read the marks. I also found another number on the frame, it also has different font. Any explanation? Attached Thumbnails

03-20-2025, 05:11 PM	#32
refab60 User Join Date: Mar 2025 Location: Italia Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here the serial number Attached Thumbnails

02-28-2020, 02:59 PM	#21
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	I don't see the post anymore, but someone had asked about the sideplate. Sadly, it is blank.

03-02-2020, 02:14 PM	#22
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	New mec-gar mag arrived today and everything now works fine. The spring on the old mag was shot and the lips were chewed and bent. I will try it at the range later today. Thanks for all the advice and information. I look forward to spending more time on this forum.

03-02-2020, 08:45 PM	#23
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	I've probably about killed this topic, but in case anyone is still interested, the gun performed flawlessly today at the range with the new mag.

03-05-2020, 10:43 AM	#26
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	One more question about this gun. Given that the side-plate is not original ('31' on bottom edge), the firing pin also does not match ('36') and the non-original mag does not function, was $1300 shipped a reasonable price to pay for the gun, holster and belt w/buckle? I asked because the auction house described it as: 'Numbers match on the gun, but the magazine is unmarked and appears to be aftermarket.' I let them know that at minimum the firing pin and side-plate did not match, and I had not checked anything that required a further breakdown. They'll take it back if I want to return it. I realize that jumping into auctions blindly and bidding on things you know little about is a bad idea, but I've watched a few Lugers in past auctions and never saw any go much lower than $1,500, so I thought if the parts matched as the auction said, and the magazine at least worked, I couldn't go wrong at that price.

03-05-2020, 02:02 PM	#28
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 43 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you very much!

03-14-2025, 10:50 AM	#30
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,733 Thanks: 815 Thanked 1,755 Times in 582 Posts	The notch in the front of the receiver was required by a military directive in 1916 to be on all Lugers. It was so the receivers originally with a short barrel could be made into an Artillery (LP-08) Luger by simply changing the barrel. The notch allows the Artillery rear sight to sit properly. Erfurt, a Royal Rifle Factory, followed the directive. DWM, a private contractor, only notched receivers that were actually made into an Artillery Luger.

03-20-2025, 05:19 PM	#33
refab60 User Join Date: Mar 2025 Location: Italia Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And then, a miscellaneous of marks Attached Thumbnails

03-20-2025, 05:58 PM	#34
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,733 Thanks: 815 Thanked 1,755 Times in 582 Posts	Refab60, your Luger has been rechambered in 9x21mm. I assume it's because Italy doesn't allow civilians to own 9x19mm pistols. It has clearly gone through an Italian proof house as the proof marks show. In general, Lugers are very accurate so I don't know why yours is not. Have you tried shooting it from a rest to eliminate human error? Lugers made in 1918 would have been zeroed at 50 meters with a 123 grain bullet at approximately 332 meters per second.

03-21-2025, 02:58 AM	#35
refab60 User Join Date: Mar 2025 Location: Italia Posts: 5 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi @Doubs, you are right, as usual! All guns in 9 luger had to be rechambered in 9x21 because of a law of 1975 made all military calibers forbidden for civilians (also 30-06 e.g.). So all the collectors had to rape the chamebers or hand over the guns to Police. We have to wait until feb 2022 to have 9x19 free again. What about the 7229 in the frame? Any other info about the punches? "Lugers made in 1918 would have been zeroed at 50 meters" Are you sure about this? I assume this kinds of weapon were made for short distances, 15 meters or few more 'cause the short barrel, and zeroed at 25. Anyway I'll follow your tip, thanks.

03-23-2025, 03:39 AM	#37
JLD1504 User Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 8 Thanks: 6 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	As a Brit sometime resident in Italy and who owns a 1920 DWM P08 re-chambered in 9x21 I can offer the following thoughts. From the photos the barrel looks original it has just been re-chambered from 9x19 to 9x21 and Gardone proof marks added. I might guess the additional number is possibly a sequence number of chamber conversions proof tests? It is interesting that you report this pistol is 'wildly inaccurate' - mine is as accurate as other P08 I own and comfortably holds the 9 ring (10cm) on an ISSF Olympic target at 25m. There are some variables worth looking at perhaps to identify the issue of the reported inaccuracy. Firstly check the barrel condition and 'crown' of the barrel (at the muzzle) - any signs of significant wear and/or damage at the crown? any leading of the barrel or has it only fired jacketed ammunition....? Clean the chamber and barrel carefully and thoroughly to remove lead (if any). If all looks good including the chamber - do the 'drop test' - separate the frame and receiver/barrel - hold the barrel vertically chamber up and place a 9x21 round bullet into the chamber entrance and let it drop in under gravity (its own weight alone). What happens? Does it chamber completely or not - if not then remove the cartridge examine, clean the chamber and/or try different cartridges until this test works! For safety reasons DO NOT attempt this test with an assembled pistol! If this test works then, you should consider the ammunition you are using. My recent experience with Fiocchi 9x21 115gr in Italy is not good and groups are not great, nor as good as previously. I would suggest you try a selection of different batches or ammunition from friends including reloads to see if the accuracy improves? I would suggest you use jacketed 115gr bullets initially not lead bullets. With any new pistol shoot the pistol rested either from a rest or bag type rest - I would suggest you start and shoot at 10m if your TSN Poligono allows that? At 10m rested you should achieve a 20-30mm group or better rested. There is no need to shoot at 25m until you are certain about the accuracy of the pistol. Let us know how you get on doing the above....