Jammed Shell - Page 2

Sieger · 07-24-2019, 10:14 PM

Meadowlark,

A would bet your extractor spring is the problem.

Take GT's advice regarding investing in a new Mec-Gar magazine and my other board members' advice regarding ejector and extractor examination. GT can supply you with a pretuned Mec-Gar.

Buy and try firing a few boxes of S&B 124 grain brass cased ammo.

A weak extractor spring is the most likely cause of stove pipe jams in Luger pistols.

If you are a Handloader, there is much, much more advice I can give you.

Hope this helps.

Sieger

Sharpsdressed Man · 07-27-2019, 10:40 AM

Is there a spring KIT available that can be purchased that will update Lugers and relieve a lot of extraction/ejections problems, or prevent them in the future?

Doubs · 07-27-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpsdressed Man

Is there a spring KIT available that can be purchased that will update Lugers and relieve a lot of extraction/ejections problems, or prevent them in the future?

Try Wolff springs. Go to Service Pak I

https://www.gunsprings.com/LUGER/cID1/mID38/dID162

Wolff makes excellent springs. Service Pak I contains all you need to replace the coil springs. The ejector, however, is a different matter. For that - ONLY if yours is broken - you'll need to contact LugerDoc or someone else who sells ejectors.

Vlim · 07-27-2019, 10:43 AM

Sieger: much is explained in our book on Paul Mauser.

Paperwork from the court case between Mauser and Luger survived, as well as many other documents.

Remington ammo test reports from the 1970s are also available.

Sharpsdressed Man · 07-28-2019, 10:55 PM

Thanks. Didn't know if Wolff was the only one, or the best.

meadowlark · 07-30-2019, 05:43 PM

Went to the range today to try out some Winchester 9mm 115gr ammo to see if that would correct my jammed shell problem. The good news is I only had 1 out of 50-60 partially jam and that 1 was easy to clear.The bad news was my shooting was all over the place. I think just changing from Remington to Winchester ammo was what all I needed to do to fix this problem. Thanks to everyone who suggested this fix. I'm now going to retire this collectable P08 from shooting and look around for a P08 "shooter".

DonVoigt · 07-30-2019, 09:13 PM

"I think just changing from Remington to Winchester ammo was what all I needed to do to fix this problem. Thanks to everyone who suggested this fix."

Not a surprise to many of us.

Keep your eye on the forum trader for a "shooter".

kpf · 08-11-2019, 02:59 PM

The luger P08 is wery sensitive on the ammo. I checked several types of ammo with the original German bullet shape and found Winchester 115 gr white box to be near perfect match.
And they works perfect.

Regards

Kai

DonVoigt · 08-11-2019, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpf

The luger P08 is wery sensitive on the ammo. I checked several types of ammo with the original German bullet shape and found Winchester 115 gr white box to be near perfect match.
And they works perfect.

Regards

Kai

But not in every luger!

mrerick · 08-12-2019, 08:20 PM

have you removed the extractor (it's an easy job, just drift out the pin - carefully holding it in place so that you don't lose the extractor spring)? Also, checked the spring well for dirt and cleaned it in that area?

I can't comment on Remington 9mm UMC ammo because I don't use it, but in addition to any quality concerns, it might just be the powder that they use and it's burn rate.

Manufacturers will use their own group's components when making ammunition. For example, it's very likely that Winchester White Box 9mm ammo is loaded with their W231 powder.

While Barnes (bullets) is part of the Remington Outdoor Company (renamed from the Cerberus Capital Management owned Freedom Group conglomerate during bankruptcy proceedings a few years ago) but I don't see one of the powder manufacturers is in the group. It's very possible that they source powder from multiple places, but hard to know for sure. Their annual report confirms that they source gunpowder from a number of companies.

Doubs · 08-13-2019, 01:54 AM

mrerick, thank you for the information. Very interesting.

I wasn't aware of the Mauser-Luger legal case but was aware that Mauser sued the U.S. Government for infringement of patents WRT the 1903 Springfield. IIRC, Mauser was awarded one million dollars which was a huge sum in those days.

Sergio Natali · 08-13-2019, 09:28 AM

Somewhere I read that at the beginning Lugers were supposed to shoot 124gr fmj bullet at 1050/fps but just before WWI loads were changed to 115gr fmj at 1150fps.
Now, coming to the point, I don't have recent experience with shooting Lugers at the range but I used to keep my reloads on the mildish side as I seem to remember that Lugers don't like hot ammo very much.
If your pistol is "collector quality" there is always the chance of breaking something that cannot be easily replaced, so stay away from heavy loads.

Sieger · 08-14-2019, 08:36 AM

[QUOTE=Sergio Natali;327269]... but just before WWI loads were changed to 115gr fmj at 1150fps.
[QUOTE]

Sergio,

The German army increased the 9mm Parabellum, 123 grain, load to 1,076 fps and held it there through the DDR period.

I have all of the original German language military manuals for the period as absolute proof.

Shoot hotter loads at your own risk.

Respectfully,

Sieger

K.Wilhelm · 08-19-2019, 09:43 AM

All of the great advice my learned friends have given here did not include one thing I find to be of great assistance to improving functioning in Lugers; that is liberal application of a good quality lube.

Bill

Rick W. · 08-19-2019, 01:29 PM

I have always heard that the primary function of the extractor on a Luger is to grab the rim of the case, and hold it against the breechblock face until the ejector forciblby removes it.

I have noted over the years some things about the extractor and its spring in problematic pistols. I think the more common might be the spring is too short or too weak, to allow the holding of the case in place. Take an empty case, insert it into the loose breechblock train, it should kinda snap into place, with a feeling of tension holding the case in place. If the case is loose or falls out, this will usually cause an unintended movement early in the fired circle, usually falls into the works and jams up. I believe that the ejector likes some resistance to its upcoming force to the fired case.

Likewise I have seen broken extractors, when a new extractor is fitted, it is found that the compression of the spring in its cavity by the extractor going over the case rim, does not allow for some tolerance to allow said exactor to move over the rim without extractor springing. some people poo-poo that check, but with today's parts, might wanna check that capability of movement. Tis not a 1900.

Finally the ejector, a marvelous piece of steel it is. Broken nose, ill fitted in the cavity(loose) will not give the leverage needed to kick the case away from the breechblock face in the intended fashion

A few years back Huntingtons(RCBS) had extractor molds for casting parts. Never knew all of the ins/outs of the fab of the smaller parts, just a clue perhaps.

07-30-2019, 05:43 PM	#6
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Winchester White Box Ammo Went to the range today to try out some Winchester 9mm 115gr ammo to see if that would correct my jammed shell problem. The good news is I only had 1 out of 50-60 partially jam and that 1 was easy to clear.The bad news was my shooting was all over the place. I think just changing from Remington to Winchester ammo was what all I needed to do to fix this problem. Thanks to everyone who suggested this fix. I'm now going to retire this collectable P08 from shooting and look around for a P08 "shooter".

07-30-2019, 09:13 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	"I think just changing from Remington to Winchester ammo was what all I needed to do to fix this problem. Thanks to everyone who suggested this fix." Not a surprise to many of us. Keep your eye on the forum trader for a "shooter". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-12-2019, 08:20 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	have you removed the extractor (it's an easy job, just drift out the pin - carefully holding it in place so that you don't lose the extractor spring)? Also, checked the spring well for dirt and cleaned it in that area? I can't comment on Remington 9mm UMC ammo because I don't use it, but in addition to any quality concerns, it might just be the powder that they use and it's burn rate. Manufacturers will use their own group's components when making ammunition. For example, it's very likely that Winchester White Box 9mm ammo is loaded with their W231 powder. While Barnes (bullets) is part of the Remington Outdoor Company (renamed from the Cerberus Capital Management owned Freedom Group conglomerate during bankruptcy proceedings a few years ago) but I don't see one of the powder manufacturers is in the group. It's very possible that they source powder from multiple places, but hard to know for sure. Their annual report confirms that they source gunpowder from a number of companies. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-13-2019, 09:28 AM	#12
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Somewhere I read that at the beginning Lugers were supposed to shoot 124gr fmj bullet at 1050/fps but just before WWI loads were changed to 115gr fmj at 1150fps. Now, coming to the point, I don't have recent experience with shooting Lugers at the range but I used to keep my reloads on the mildish side as I seem to remember that Lugers don't like hot ammo very much. If your pistol is "collector quality" there is always the chance of breaking something that cannot be easily replaced, so stay away from heavy loads. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

08-19-2019, 09:43 AM	#14
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Advice on Shooting Lugers All of the great advice my learned friends have given here did not include one thing I find to be of great assistance to improving functioning in Lugers; that is liberal application of a good quality lube. Bill __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

07-24-2019, 10:14 PM	#1
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Meadowlark, A would bet your extractor spring is the problem. Take GT's advice regarding investing in a new Mec-Gar magazine and my other board members' advice regarding ejector and extractor examination. GT can supply you with a pretuned Mec-Gar. Buy and try firing a few boxes of S&B 124 grain brass cased ammo. A weak extractor spring is the most likely cause of stove pipe jams in Luger pistols. If you are a Handloader, there is much, much more advice I can give you. Hope this helps. Sieger

07-27-2019, 10:40 AM	#2
Sharpsdressed Man User Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts	Is there a spring KIT available that can be purchased that will update Lugers and relieve a lot of extraction/ejections problems, or prevent them in the future?

07-27-2019, 10:43 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Sieger: much is explained in our book on Paul Mauser. Paperwork from the court case between Mauser and Luger survived, as well as many other documents. Remington ammo test reports from the 1970s are also available.

07-28-2019, 10:55 PM	#5
Sharpsdressed Man User Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts	Thanks. Didn't know if Wolff was the only one, or the best.

08-11-2019, 02:59 PM	#8
kpf User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Finnøy, Norway Posts: 75 Thanks: 78 Thanked 36 Times in 10 Posts	The luger P08 is wery sensitive on the ammo. I checked several types of ammo with the original German bullet shape and found Winchester 115 gr white box to be near perfect match. And they works perfect. Regards Kai

08-13-2019, 01:54 AM	#11
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	mrerick, thank you for the information. Very interesting. I wasn't aware of the Mauser-Luger legal case but was aware that Mauser sued the U.S. Government for infringement of patents WRT the 1903 Springfield. IIRC, Mauser was awarded one million dollars which was a huge sum in those days.

08-14-2019, 08:36 AM	#13
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	[QUOTE=Sergio Natali;327269]... but just before WWI loads were changed to 115gr fmj at 1150fps. [QUOTE] Sergio, The German army increased the 9mm Parabellum, 123 grain, load to 1,076 fps and held it there through the DDR period. I have all of the original German language military manuals for the period as absolute proof. Shoot hotter loads at your own risk. Respectfully, Sieger

08-19-2019, 01:29 PM	#15
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	I have always heard that the primary function of the extractor on a Luger is to grab the rim of the case, and hold it against the breechblock face until the ejector forciblby removes it. I have noted over the years some things about the extractor and its spring in problematic pistols. I think the more common might be the spring is too short or too weak, to allow the holding of the case in place. Take an empty case, insert it into the loose breechblock train, it should kinda snap into place, with a feeling of tension holding the case in place. If the case is loose or falls out, this will usually cause an unintended movement early in the fired circle, usually falls into the works and jams up. I believe that the ejector likes some resistance to its upcoming force to the fired case. Likewise I have seen broken extractors, when a new extractor is fitted, it is found that the compression of the spring in its cavity by the extractor going over the case rim, does not allow for some tolerance to allow said exactor to move over the rim without extractor springing. some people poo-poo that check, but with today's parts, might wanna check that capability of movement. Tis not a 1900. Finally the ejector, a marvelous piece of steel it is. Broken nose, ill fitted in the cavity(loose) will not give the leverage needed to kick the case away from the breechblock face in the intended fashion A few years back Huntingtons(RCBS) had extractor molds for casting parts. Never knew all of the ins/outs of the fab of the smaller parts, just a clue perhaps.