Ownership of Firearms in the Netherlands - Page 2

Vlim · 11-24-2016, 07:29 AM

The Dutch fire arms law (read: disarming the population) was initially introduced in 1919. The reason was the fear of a communist uprising, as had been the case on Russia and as almost succeeded in Germany.

RShaw · 11-24-2016, 10:44 AM

Don, Vlim- Yes, the fact that in the US it is considered a basic right to be able to own firearms is an incredible blessing! While these two terms (firearm / blessing) seem to contradict each other, in my mind they fit rather well.

Instrument of self protection...... collecting wonderful marvels of engineering.....hours of target shooting or hunting in the outdoors..... sharing a common interest / passion with the subsequent social contacts and friends which would otherwise probably not happen.... all wrapped up in one single object? Where else can one find such a thing?

The shooting enthusiasts here in the Netherlands are a close knit group... and feel strongly about the right to "practise a hobby" without being penalized for the wrong actions of a few. In this way, shooting and gun ownership are viewed here as a right rather than a priviledge.. in my opinion.

mrerick · 11-24-2016, 04:38 PM

In 1919 several American states passed draconian firearms control laws with the intention of disarming one group - black American citizens.

This started in New York with the Sullivan Act, and was followed in other states including North Carolina where I live now. We have a "Pistol Purchase Permit" system which was established then, and which we're still working to eliminate. It was specifically established as an anti-black Jim Crow law in order to prevent blacks from having handguns.

A historical study based on contemporary reporting of the law was recently completed: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2759091

Our state had a handgun registration law on the books in one county (Durham) which we got repealed 3 years ago. I had to go back to hardcopy of the laws to actually locate it since it had been codified in 1935. The way it was written, any citizen traveling through the county had to register their handgun, or they were in violation. In practice, it was only enforced against black citizens.

Time and again we have seen governments restrict the rights of one seemingly undesirable group of citizens or another through these schemes. It's why I look at all rights infringement with suspicion.

RShaw · 11-27-2016, 12:46 PM

Very true Olle- well put.
That being said, I really hope we in the Netherlands can continue to shoot and enjoy firearms for sport, hunting and/or collecting.... every so often the EEC gets into the act, trying to curtail firearm ownership even more, which is followed by vigorous protest from the 'firearm world" because we can easily see that the ideas proposed follow the same lines as your comments Olle, and because we can also see that those trying to increase gun regulation have no idea how the firearm world really works. Then the protests subside, and we go back to "business as usual." We do need some "fences," which we now have.... but tighter. higher fences will not be really productive. As you say, there are other and deeper things playng here.

You all have a nice day....

Big Fre · 12-04-2016, 05:22 AM

We are lucky that Europe still has a very large amount of gun-manufacturers, and that they off course lobby against strickter European rules for all European countrys, that I believe is the only reason that gun-laws haven't been restrickted more, and I hope it doens't happen ever,

The rules in Belgium are a bit easyer than in the Netherlands, but still quite difficult, we do have soms type of self-defence rules, we are allowed to carry our gun as we please inside of our house, and if a burglar brakes in and we would use a gun to protect ourselves, that would be legal, in theory when we drive from home to the club and someone stops you to rob you or carjack you, you would be allowed to use your gun, problem is it has to be transported in a sealed case with empty mags and the ammo in seperate case, in the trunk of the car, so it would be kind of hard to get the gun loaded and ready to fire

mrerick · 12-04-2016, 10:12 AM

It all comes down to how much your government is organized to trust it's law abiding citizens.

The laws don't apply to the criminals and terrorists because they already intend to violate laws to complete more violent crimes. The laws just make it easier for them to complete their crimes. The thing that has changed is that the anti-gun anti-lawful citizen laws clearly cannot protect citizens from escalating violence.

Recent analysis shows that the results don't really improve things for law abiding citizens in Europe. I know John Lott, and respect his work:

http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/com...us-and-europe/

ithacaartist · 12-04-2016, 01:18 PM

Latin America, Africa, Russia, and many areas in Southeast Asia are more dangerous still!

Jim Mac · 12-04-2016, 09:44 PM

Its interesting to see the rules of different countries. Its like the differences of gun laws state to state in the US. As a example here in arizona you can go to the local swap meet and find a AK, AR or a nice handgun. Technically the seller should ask if the buyer is a resident of the state, collect the cash and hand the weapon over to the new owner. Say the buyer just bought a P08 luger, they can load the magazine, and carry it concealed on the way home and its perfectly legal.
Funny thing is the swap meet has signs posted about carrying guns but allows the sales of guns. Jim

11-24-2016, 10:44 AM	#2
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Don, Vlim- Yes, the fact that in the US it is considered a basic right to be able to own firearms is an incredible blessing! While these two terms (firearm / blessing) seem to contradict each other, in my mind they fit rather well. Instrument of self protection...... collecting wonderful marvels of engineering.....hours of target shooting or hunting in the outdoors..... sharing a common interest / passion with the subsequent social contacts and friends which would otherwise probably not happen.... all wrapped up in one single object? Where else can one find such a thing? The shooting enthusiasts here in the Netherlands are a close knit group... and feel strongly about the right to "practise a hobby" without being penalized for the wrong actions of a few. In this way, shooting and gun ownership are viewed here as a right rather than a priviledge.. in my opinion. __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-24-2016, 04:38 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	In 1919 several American states passed draconian firearms control laws with the intention of disarming one group - black American citizens. This started in New York with the Sullivan Act, and was followed in other states including North Carolina where I live now. We have a "Pistol Purchase Permit" system which was established then, and which we're still working to eliminate. It was specifically established as an anti-black Jim Crow law in order to prevent blacks from having handguns. A historical study based on contemporary reporting of the law was recently completed: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2759091 Our state had a handgun registration law on the books in one county (Durham) which we got repealed 3 years ago. I had to go back to hardcopy of the laws to actually locate it since it had been codified in 1935. The way it was written, any citizen traveling through the county had to register their handgun, or they were in violation. In practice, it was only enforced against black citizens. Time and again we have seen governments restrict the rights of one seemingly undesirable group of citizens or another through these schemes. It's why I look at all rights infringement with suspicion. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-27-2016, 12:46 PM	#4
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Very true Olle- well put. That being said, I really hope we in the Netherlands can continue to shoot and enjoy firearms for sport, hunting and/or collecting.... every so often the EEC gets into the act, trying to curtail firearm ownership even more, which is followed by vigorous protest from the 'firearm world" because we can easily see that the ideas proposed follow the same lines as your comments Olle, and because we can also see that those trying to increase gun regulation have no idea how the firearm world really works. Then the protests subside, and we go back to "business as usual." We do need some "fences," which we now have.... but tighter. higher fences will not be really productive. As you say, there are other and deeper things playng here. You all have a nice day.... __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

12-04-2016, 05:22 AM	#5
Big Fre User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Puivelde (Belgium) Posts: 18 Thanks: 8 Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts	We are lucky that Europe still has a very large amount of gun-manufacturers, and that they off course lobby against strickter European rules for all European countrys, that I believe is the only reason that gun-laws haven't been restrickted more, and I hope it doens't happen ever, The rules in Belgium are a bit easyer than in the Netherlands, but still quite difficult, we do have soms type of self-defence rules, we are allowed to carry our gun as we please inside of our house, and if a burglar brakes in and we would use a gun to protect ourselves, that would be legal, in theory when we drive from home to the club and someone stops you to rob you or carjack you, you would be allowed to use your gun, problem is it has to be transported in a sealed case with empty mags and the ammo in seperate case, in the trunk of the car, so it would be kind of hard to get the gun loaded and ready to fire __________________ My guns in order of date bought: -Schmidt Rubin K31 7,5x55 -S&W 686 .38 special -Browning 525 Elite 12g (clay-gun) -Sig Sauer P226 9mm luger -DWM 1916 P08 Luger 9mm luger -Steyr Mannlicher M95 8x56r -H&K usp .45

12-04-2016, 10:12 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	It all comes down to how much your government is organized to trust it's law abiding citizens. The laws don't apply to the criminals and terrorists because they already intend to violate laws to complete more violent crimes. The laws just make it easier for them to complete their crimes. The thing that has changed is that the anti-gun anti-lawful citizen laws clearly cannot protect citizens from escalating violence. Recent analysis shows that the results don't really improve things for law abiding citizens in Europe. I know John Lott, and respect his work: http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/com...us-and-europe/ __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-24-2016, 07:29 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Dutch fire arms law (read: disarming the population) was initially introduced in 1919. The reason was the fear of a communist uprising, as had been the case on Russia and as almost succeeded in Germany.

12-04-2016, 01:18 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,374 Thanks: 7,447 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	Latin America, Africa, Russia, and many areas in Southeast Asia are more dangerous still! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-04-2016, 09:44 PM	#8
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 264 Thanks: 2 Thanked 70 Times in 37 Posts	Its interesting to see the rules of different countries. Its like the differences of gun laws state to state in the US. As a example here in arizona you can go to the local swap meet and find a AK, AR or a nice handgun. Technically the seller should ask if the buyer is a resident of the state, collect the cash and hand the weapon over to the new owner. Say the buyer just bought a P08 luger, they can load the magazine, and carry it concealed on the way home and its perfectly legal. Funny thing is the swap meet has signs posted about carrying guns but allows the sales of guns. Jim