First post/First Luger/First problem

[Edward Tinker]

The luger toggle will stay back unless there are rounds in the gun - there is not a release like a 1911

The gun not clicking to fire could be several things. Tom at Legacy is very easy to work with. Sometimes the issue is the sideplate, sometimes something else.

Each 'type' of luger can be different, so you can't compare numbers on different eras or types of lugers

Ed

PS: no photobucket needed and pretty easy to post pictures here

[PAcanis]

Thanks Edward. Got the pics figured out
That makes it so much nicer than having to upload to PB and copy and paste.

Sheepherder, the nub on mine pushes in rather hard with my finger, but more easily with the leverage of the trigger. It feels like the spring is really stiff.
Is what you are calling the sear also called a "sear bar" on parts diagrams?

I'll try cleaning that area, but it still seems like the sear should release before the trigger gets that close to the frame.

And I found a forum that explained the numbers. It said my year the number should be one higher than the first two of the serial number, which it is (I guess that was a 60 I was seeing). All the pics I was seeing showed the number on the extended area that fits under the takedown lever, so maybe placement changed, too.

And Merry Christmas, guys.
Thanks for your help and thanks for that pic, Sheep.

[SteveM]

It sounds like it is the plunger, as others have said. I had one that would fire once and then no more until about an hour later. The plunger was sticky and it took that long to re-set. A soak in gasoline fixed the problem.(I know, soaking in gas is not the safest thing but it works)

[Neil Young]

You can hopefully narrow down the problem by removing the cannon (the receiver, barrel and toggle assembly) from the frame. Do not remove the toggle. Pull the toggle up and all the way back and push it back into battery. This should insure that the firing pin is locked back and ready to be released. Press on the forward end of the sear bar near the spring loaded plunger on the front. The sear bar should rock around a central pivot pin and release the firing pin (striker). If it clicks, then the striker has released forward. If not, then the problem is in the sear/toggle area. If it does click and is repeatable, then the problem is probably in the trigger/side plate area, assuming that the sear plunger is free and smooth as mentioned by others above. If what I am saying is not clear, then others may expand or correct. Try it.

[PAcanis]

Neil, it is repeatable. There doesn't seem to be a problem in that aspect except like I mentioned, the spring seems really stiff. It does not push and release the firing pin as easily as I would have thought. I'm still going to clean it out and oil things. The gun is bone dry and extremely clean, too. I wouldn't doubt if it wa soaked and air hosed.

I'm gaining a better understanding of how it works, especially being able to do searches with the terms you guys are using. And that led me to this: If I push on the sideplate it fires with normal pressure on the trigger. So my problem must be in the sideplate or the sideplate lever. Like I mentioned, it is not loose, but something needs adjusted. Or perhaps the channel the sear bar must fit in is not allowing the plunger to stick out as far as it should.

[mrerick]

Be very careful about "adjusting" things in the trigger linkage. These were precision manufactured and properly assembled and adjusted by the factory. If it is all matching, and nobody has fooled with it it should be adjusted properly.

Lubrication issues are more likely...

[nukem556]

Ok, you gave the big clue in your last post......if you hold pressure in on the sideplate, it fires normally. Now attempt to fire the gun normally looking straight down from the top....do you see the sideplate push out slightly as you pull the trigger? I'm betting so...then your takedown lever isnt putting enough pressure on the tab of the sideplate to hold it firmly. The good news is thats easier to fix than a bad trigger lever. Not neccesarily suggesting you do it yourself, but if you search the old posts, there's advice on how its done.

[PAcanis]

Thanks, Nuken. I'll do a search.

I did take the sear bar, trigger bar or whatever it's called out. Same as before, everything was clean as a bean. I oiled everything up and put the pistol back together nad the trigger fired fine... then it didn't. Without sitting here and dry firing it two dozen times I was able to see that now sometimes it works fine and sometimes it doesn't. So oiling at least helped some.

I tried your test and cannot see the sideplate move, even the times it did not want to fire. Nor can I feel it move, but when I put pressure on the tab under the takedown lever it fired fine the one time, so I think you nailed it. Plus it is really worn in that area. There seems to have been a lot of friction between the tabe and takedown lever.
I'll bet this fixes it right up. Thanks for the advice.

Now... can I throw in a second problem?
Since I was sitting at my bench and somewhat detail stripping it, I looked for more serial numbers. Checked the firing pin out and that was numbered. That lead me to the grips. The one came off with a little finger pressure inside the magwell. The other came right off. There's a reason it fell off as soom as I took the screw out. It has a crack on the inside of it. Darn near through to the outside, but completely un-noticeable from the outside.
I'm not sure if I should leave it alone or repair it. I would hate for it to completely crack if I don't do anything. I guess it was a good thing it's not firing or the crack may have gone unnoticed until it was too late.
I'm thinking a little acra-glas would repair it so it doesn't keep cracking, but it's a Luger, not the forearm on a Mosin Nagant.

What is the general consensus on this?

[DavidJayUden]

Accra-Glass is the go-to for wood repair, however we have a forum member, Hugh, who is a wizzard with all sorts of Luger grip repairs. I suggest letting him make the repair.
But also you may wish to check with the seller first if you feel they should have noticed this.
dju

[PAcanis]

So I take it that it's OK then to repair the grips.
Thanks, dju.

I tried all manner of searches and could not come up with a thread for adding pressure to the side plate. The closest I came was a thread where you all suggested this fix, then the member took it to a smith anyway.
Can someone help me locate the thread that describes the fix?

Thanks

[John Sabato]

On the homepage for the forum: http://www.lugerforum.com/ there is a "see through" animation of the operation of the Luger pistol, courtesy of Gerard Henrotin, who is the author of many E-books on pistols, including several on the Luger.

For beginners, I strongly recommend you buy and download his book: "Luger Mechanical Features"... it only costs $7.95 and clearly illustrates the mechanical relationships of the trigger/sear/firing pin.



You can find his books at this link: http://www.hlebooks.com/

IMHO, These are great books for new Luger owners, enthusiasts, and collectors.

BTW, Gerard is also a member here...

Merry Christmas!

My next post will attempt to diagnose your problem...

[John Sabato]

Make sure the gun is unloaded and remove the magazine.

Remove the sideplate from your Luger, and then reassemble the upper to the lower receiver and close the takedown lever.

Now with the sideplace removed, pull the toggle fully back and let it snap forward on its own inertia... Your pistol should now have the firing pin held back by the sear in the firing position.

You test this by applying pressure to the front of the sear in the same manner as the "L" shaped lever would apply pressure if the sideplate were attached. If you do this you should hear the unmistakeable CLICK of the firing pin dropping to the FIRED position.

If you can repeat this test, every time you pull the toggle fully back and let it go, and you can hear the firing pin drop, then the problem is not with the Luger, but with the sideplate.

If the firing pin does not drop for this test, even once, then the problem maybe partially, if not fully, with the parts installed on the upper receiver.

Please post the results of your testing here, and I will provide additional guidance based on your results.

[PAcanis]

Thanks for the feedback, John.
I did a similar test earlier and the firing pin repeatedly dropped, or fired. The upper receiver was not on the frame though.
I just want to double-check if it makes a difference so I don't keep dry firing it without any snap caps. I thought we (you guys) had determined the problem was the sideplate was not exerting enough pressure. When I press on the sideplate and apply light pressure it also fires every time. And when I press on the sideplate tab underneath the takedown lever it fires.

[DavidJayUden]

So would that be a sideplate issue or the trigger lever?
dju

[John Sabato]

Okay, based on your last post, this is a sideplate interface with the upper receiver issue. Apparently the L-shaped lever is not performing it's job correctly. This may be the result of some previous owner working on the trigger pull by polishing one of the contact surfaces of the "L". If too much material has been polished off, then the lever can't supply a consistent push to the sear bar.

From your photo of the inside of the sideplate, it appears that the upper part of the "L" has not been messed with. As an experiment, I would suggest that you cut a small piece of durable tape, (like the shiney aluminum tape that is used to seal duct work ---no not cloth duct tape) and tape it to the top of the lower L surface so that it will increase the lever movement by the amount of the thickness of the tape. This will not be durable, but will provide more information on how to correct your problem.

With that piece of tape securely mounted, reassemble the gun and see if you have consistant firing pin drop. For the amount of testing, just use a fired cased with the old primer still installed... a snap cap may be overkill. Dry firing is not recommended as a frequent activity, but dropping the firing pin a few dozen times a year really shouldn't hurt anything.

If the addition of the tape on the lower part of the L proves to successfully allow dropping the firing pin, then at least we will know the source of your problem, and I can suggest a few possible long term remedies...

[PAcanis]

Thanks John!
I think I have some of that foil tape around here somewhere...
I'll report back after I test it.

And thanks for the additional info on dry firing.

[PAcanis]

You know, John, I was just at a gun show last weekend and it had come down to me picking up some knick knacks and I told myself, No, I never have a use for tweezers when I'm working on my guns... lol

So I got the foil tape in place and... problem solved. You nailed it.
So what is a more permanent fix, if there is one?

[John Sabato]

The permanent fix... you have to increase the top surface where you installed the tape.

How?

--Some have actually worked to bend a little more tightness in the L lever... but this is a hardened part and VERY subject to breakage... unless you are a machinist, I would not use this solution.

--Micro welding and the recontouring the surface where you put the tape so it works...(but this is an all matching gun, so I am not sure you will want to do that).

--buy a replacement lever (see member Lugerdoc and hope he has one for sale, or put a WTB post in that forum, and if anyone has one for sale, they will contact you.) Some fitting may be required. You can remove the lever by putting a flat screwdriver blade behind the dogleg in the pin that holds it and pop it outward to release it.

--You can create an L-shaped shim that fits in the slot in the trigger to reduce the space that the lever uses. I created one like that out of a thin aluminum soda can once when I didn't have the money for a new lever, and used that gun for years... just be mindful on disassembly that you don't lose your shim.

--You can even try a drop of metallized epoxy (J-B Weld?) on the lever where you put the tape, and when it is dry and hard, shape it to provide the trigger performance you are looking for...

beyond these suggestions, you can use your own imagination on solving this engineering problem... just avoid anything that permanently modifies the original parts if you care about future value... if you are creating a shooter... then you have no limits on modifications... just make it shoot.

Glad I could help.

[PAcanis]

I like that shim in the trigger slot idea.
On the other hand... I don't see any numbers on the lever either, so for all I know maybe it's not original to the pistol. I have a gunsmith/machinist buddy that might be able to tweak it...
And then again, for all I intend to shoot it (not much) maybe that tape will do the trick. That was certainly easy enough and won't fall out.

Thank you very much for your time and suggestions.

Great forum you folks have here. Very helpful members. As a neophyte to Lugers I can appreciate that. Especially with it being the holiday season.
Thanks guys.

[DavidJayUden]

That lever is an un-numbered part. So you can buy a spare or 2 and go wild...
dju